Randall made ?'s

E

elmbow

Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
87
I came across an old Randall model 3 I think, looking over the knife I have noticed a couple things that I am curious about and I was hoping that maybe an expert could chime in. Two of the leather washers on the handle are quite a bit thicker than the others, like 3/8" compared to 3/16", and the spacers above the pommel aren't perfectly horizontal, in other words the spacers are about a 16th lower on the right side of the handle compared to the left. This is an old knife and has seen some use. The leather was very dry and dirty before I cleaned it up and applied some leather conditioner. I am wondering if it was common for Randall made knives to use different thickness washers? Could the spacers on the pommel end have shifted over the years if the butt cap was tightened to adjust for the leather drying out? Also I noticed the solder on the hilt was applied kind of messy and it has stained/patina black in some areas of the solder. Does anyone know what kind of solder Randall used back then? I feel like it is strange to see a messy solder job with black spots based on other Randall's I have seen. The solder extends about an 1/8" from the blade on the back and sides and in the front of the blade it extends 3/8" into the hilt. the solder border is not uniform either. The different sized washers, uneven spacers, and messy solder got me wondering if this could have been a kit knife. I cannot see any markings that would indicate a kit knife and everything else seems very legitimate.

It came with a Johnson rough back sheath and the original Norton bear brand sp13 stone. From what I have read it should be a late 60's to early 70's. The washer pattern is thick red, thin white, extra thick greenish, thin white, and thick red. The stamp has the O inset from the R in Randall and the F is aligned in between the middle and right vertical lines of the M in made. I am certainly not an expert on these knives and I have spent the last couple of weeks researching them. Sorry about the lack of pictures but this forum is not photo friendly.

Thanks
 
Posting photos is not that difficult. Follow these direction and you should be able to post photo. Hard to tell with no photos. THT
USING IMGUR TO POST PICTURES ON A FORUM

You can't post an image directly to a forum? That is almost always because you are not a paid member.

Create an account (free) at Imgur.com. Create an Imgur name, like a forum name here.

To post a picture you have saved (probably in the "picture" file) on your computer:

Go to IMGUR.COM

Click on "Browse" at Imgur (which automatically appears when you open IMGUR,)

"Open" the picture you want to copy or "drag" that picture to the IMGUR screen (you will be prompted as to where to put it by IMGUR.). This saves the picture to Imgur.

Put cursor on your IMGUR name at upper right to drop down a menu of actions.

Click on "[your Imgur name] images" on the menu that drops. Images that you have saved to IMGUR will appear in a grid to the left.

Left click on the image in the grid that you wish to share here.

On the right side of the screen, a list of options appears. Click on blue "Copy" tab on "BBCode" () from the list of options.

Go to forum page where you want picture to show up and "paste" link you just copied from Imgur on that page. Your image will appear in your post so long as it is still saved in IMGUR.

It gets easier and easier as you use it. Copied from BF member, Thomas Linton.
 
You talked me into doing the imgur thing so let's give it a try.
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Good job getting the photos posted. I'm not knowledgeable, so I'm no help, but with photos others who are can help you...just may take time.
 
The solder and the uneven washers would have me wondering too. I’ve never seen another one like that.

The thicker leather washers. I think must be two washers that are fused together. Leather just doesn’t come 3/8” thick that I’m aware of.
 
I am very confident they are not two washers fused together even after scrubbing, cleaning, and looking under a strong magnifier at the leather it still looks like one piece of leather. Leather can certainly be that thick, I was just guesstimating at the 3/8", maybe 5/16" would be a more accurate description.
 
I don’t doubt your observation skills.

The washers are also compressed so the leather was thicker to start. It would have been 7/16” thick to make a 5/16” finished washer. Maybe two washers got flipped so they mated rough side to rough side? That would make a seam between them disappear. I think.

So washers that thick are indeed an a mystery. I’m more puzzled by the washer under the pommel. Why is it tapered?

I’m looking forward to and hoping to learn more.
 
Looks to me like a knife that's been repaired. The canted spacer at the pommel is due to the filler material, and the solder joint seems crude. Spacers could have been rearranged at that time.
 
There are MANY imitation/counterfeit/fake Randall-stamped knives out there, often made in Eastern Europe. Some are even partially from the Randall shop. (Blades stolen some time ago and then finished, often poorly, by non-Randall workers.)
The knife shown is NOT Randall quality.
-Steve
 
cut_n_run said:
There are MANY imitation/counterfeit/fake Randall-stamped knives out there, often made in Eastern Europe. Some are even partially from the Randall shop. (Blades stolen some time ago and then finished, often poorly, by non-Randall workers.)
The knife shown is NOT Randall quality.
-Steve
Click to expand...

I appreciate the feedback guys and while I am certainly no expert on Randall made knives I am not sure I am ready to believe this knife is a Bulgarian fake.... It seems really weird to me that someone would go to all the work of finding an accurate sheath and stone to match the knife. This knife has been stored for a long time in the sheath with the stone so if someone did manage to find the correct sheath and stone they most likely did it before the internet and easy access to all the relevant information now readily available to help put all the correct pieces together. also I can't believe someone would go to all that work and at the same time not make a clean solder joint, it is very easy to wipe excess solder off of a joint with a wet rag before it solidifies, every plumber out there can do it. The stone had a ton of verdigris built up where it touched the snap on the sheath, and both of the snaps were also completely filled with verdigris so this leads me to believe that whatever happened to this knife happened long ago and not recently. From all my reading, the spacer pattern, stamp, stone, and sheath all came from the same era. Also I have had the privilege of sharpening a few different carbon steel Randall knives and the blade on this one sharpened just like the others. It is hard to explain but after sharpening a lot of knives I can certainly notice the difference and similarities between different steels. The Randall's I have sharpened were all consistent and they seem to be one of the easiest steels to sharpen and they take an extremely smooth edge while amazingly, they also seem to have great edge retention when compared to their ease of sharpening. This is one of the reasons I love Randall's and want to get more. I certainly believe that this knife could have been a kit knife or even extremely neglected and then repaired in the past because the solder just doesn't seem like something Randall Made would allow to leave their shop. Either way I am happy with the knife because I picked it up looking for a Randall with the intent on using it as my go to hunting knife. I didn't realize at first but the sheath is marked 7-5 so apparently it is a model 7 not a 3 and after looking at the catalog it indeed matches the measurements listed for the model 7. Here are some pictures of the stone, sheath, and stamp. the stone has been used but after I cleaned it and looked closely I could still see some of the original markings leading me to believe the stone is a Norton bear brand sp13 stone. I tried to get the design on the stone to show in the photos, it is kind of visible but not as obvious when compared to seeing it in person. Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it.
More pictures

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If it were mine eventually I think my curiousity would drive me to disassembling it to see what is going on under the washers. Then re handle it, either with new washers or maybe stag or micarta.

It’s current condition it no longer has collector value. So changing it won’t hurt it’s value any. None of the issues are related to the blade so it should be a great user. No matter what.
 
eveled said:
If it were mine eventually I think my curiousity would drive me to disassembling it to see what is going on under the washers. Then re handle it, either with new washers or maybe stag or micarta.

It’s current condition it no longer has collector value. So changing it won’t hurt it’s value any. None of the issues are related to the blade so it should be a great user. No matter what.
Click to expand...

If the handle was loose or coming apart I think I would, but currently it is nice and tight and the old leather washers have developed a ribbed texture that is perfect IMHO. And you are correct, this will be a perfect user. I officially retired my Buck 107 from work duty because it came from my father. This is the closest blade shape to the Buck 107 that I have found and its a Randall. So many people think they need a huge knife to field dress or bone out a large animal like a mule deer or elk. I have done enough to know that a nice little knife like the Randall model 7 or Buck 107 is all you need, along with the knowledge of where to cut. This is the perfect knife for hunting and fishing. I tried my friends Havalon hunting scalpel thing and I hated it, it was an accident waiting to happen and he and I both kept snapping blades in the meat. Not cool.

As far as the knife goes I doubt I will ever know its true history unless I send it in to Randall Made. I just found one on eBay that clearly has a couple of extra large washers and a sloppy solder joint, who knows lol. The listing says it was typical to see a sloppy solder job on knives from that period....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RANDALL-kn...4b35:g:Bk4AAOSwOKlcaFYn&LH_ItemCondition=3000
 
A 107 is a Buck you don’t often see. A handy looking knife.

On your #7 is the pommel held with a nut or peened?
 
I was not aware of the no nut possibility until I read the eBay listing. That knife and yours are very similar indeed.

I think your knife found it’s perfect home. It needs to be used. Enjoy it.
 
Update.... a little elbow grease went a long way on this old knife. I gave the handle a light sanding followed up by a cleaning with some saddle soap for both the handle and sheath followed by some skidmoore's. Next I spent about 15 minutes polishing the blade with a felt dremel wheel and automotive wax... I also hand polished the hilt and solder joint with the automotive wax. And last of all I gave it a fresh new edge and she is ready for use. I can't believe how well this old knife cleaned up with such little work.

Also I was wondering what forum would be the best to post some pictures of an old antique american knife I came across. I would love to get some thoughts and opinions on the possible date based off the materials, design, leather sheath and stitching etc...

Because everybody loves pictures.....

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you knife is 100% Randall, I have many vintage Randalls with a similar solder, each hand made. you have a nice older one, white stone
 
Is it possible that it was sold as a "kit" knife? I know Randall used to sell them for customers to build their own.
 
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