Real (functional) swords

not2sharp said:
A fighting sword is not just a big knife. True swords are springy and relatively light for a good reason, they are engineered that way to provide fast and resistant impacts that can yield to help absorb blows. The same concept as your vehicle's shock absorbers.


From top to bottom: Swiss model 1875, Austrian 1853, Russian model 1827, Spanish model 1843

What you are describing sounds more like the traditional pioneer/engineer's sidearm. These were short swords which were primarily intended as tools for foraging or combat engineers. They would have been used to prepare locations for artillery positions, but would be better than bare hands if the position were overrun. These types of edged tools survive today as camp knives and machetes.

n2s
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Hi mate, I would like a working replica of an antique sword. It's good to see real antiques you posted. Do you know any websites with pics and stats on old swords which were used in real battles ?
Generally speaking what was the blade thickness of such swords?
 
not2sharp said:
A fighting sword is not just a big knife. True swords are springy and relatively light for a good reason, they are engineered that way to provide fast and resistant impacts that can yield to help absorb blows. The same concept as your vehicle's shock absorbers.


From top to bottom: Swiss model 1875, Austrian 1853, Russian model 1827, Spanish model 1843

What you are describing sounds more like the traditional pioneer/engineer's sidearm. These were short swords which were primarily intended as tools for foraging or combat engineers. They would have been used to prepare locations for artillery positions, but would be better than bare hands if the position were overrun. These types of edged tools survive today as camp knives and machetes.

n2s
Click to expand...

Hi mate, I would like a working replica of an antique sword. It's good to see real antiques you posted. Do you know any websites with pics and stats on old swords which were used in real battles ?
Generally speaking what was the blade thickness of such swords?
 
What about the Condor Dadao? Way under your budget and in my opinion the best style of sword for choppy sorts of woods things including hardwoods.
 
theAntihero said:
What about the Condor Dadao? Way under your budget and in my opinion the best style of sword for choppy sorts of woods things including hardwoods.
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Thanks for the sujjestion, definitely has an appeal especially for the price. Not one of my preferred sword styles though I was considering the kabar swabbie which is very similar.

Whats the 1075 like on the condor, do they have reliable heat treatment ? I've heard the steel on the kabar swabbie is the same as that used on the becker knives - therefore its very good.
 
Just out of curiosity, what does one use a sword for nowadays, since you referred to the item you're looking for as having to be "functional". For reenactments? Just for aesthetics? Woods work? Something else?
 
ASBOB said:
Just out of curiosity, what does one use a sword for nowadays, since you referred to the item you're looking for as having to be "functional". For reenactments? Just for aesthetics? Woods work? Something else?
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It's nice to own a sword which is the 'real deal' even if it never comes to use - it most probably / hopefully will never see action. There's something about a real sword - it has a certain value, a presence, its a piece of art and makes a better wall hanger then a fake sword IMO.

Why might it come to use? Maybe if a burglar breaks in and decides to act aggressively, maybe my neighbours pit bull decides to jump the fence and attack a kid.
Guns are pretty much illegal in the uk, swords can be kept at home.
 
Hanwei Cawood, Its a very nicely balanced sword and a fairly accurate replica of a sword made in the viking/early medieval period. It's NOT designed to cut wood it's a fighting blade, quick and lively in the hand and cuts wonderfully.If you want a 'sword' to cut wood and be a general purpose tool, this is definitely not it.But if you want a good fighting blade, for its price/quality its hard to beat.
 
Anarkistic said:
Thanks for the sujjestion, definitely has an appeal especially for the price. Not one of my preferred sword styles though I was considering the kabar swabbie which is very similar.

Whats the 1075 like on the condor, do they have reliable heat treatment ? I've heard the steel on the kabar swabbie is the same as that used on the becker knives - therefore its very good.
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I have a Golok made of the same steel, its fantastic from what ive seen. I use it very very hard too, like climb-up-a-semi-fallen-tree-and-chop-wrist-sized-branches-so-the-tree-will-fall and used-as-a-wedge-to-take-down-a-tree hard. Its very easy to get a great sharp edge on and it seems to hold its edge really well without chipping or rolling.

Really i cant recommend Condor's stuff enough, they are great tools. Maybe not the super prettiest but damn fine tools.
 
Anarkistic said:
Will look into those makers ctrees, I'm in the uk so would also consider Europeans smiths.

Any opinions on the zombie tools brand? Is the quality good, are they likely to break / chip / blade roll if I start hacking hard wood?
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I have their Hellon sword, loosely based in the iberian falcata, which is a style of sword I happen to like. Even though they are a bit expensive, the swords of Zombie Tools are very rugged and strong (as soon as I can spare the cash, I'm going to get me a Xiphos). The Swamp Rat Rodent Waki is also a very strong sword. I don't know if they are still for sale from Busse. It's my impresion that this company retire some of their models after a while and you have to go trough places like this to get one (but of course, I could be wrong). Also, there was a machete, the Aranyik Latin Machete, that you could re-handle (as I had it done), and you would have a very nice machete-like sword (and they are a lot cheaper).
 
Some mentioned DarkSword Armory. SBG classes them as beaters, as they can take a good beating. Their blade are somewhat thick and sturdy. That can be a pro or a con depending on your intended use. If you want to to a lot of backyard cutting on all kinds of targets they are a good choice. I have used my DSA 2 handed Norman with great satisfaction and it is a beautiful piece. Perhaps you should look into viking swords, been the direct evolution of the roman spatha.

A high end katana may not be a good idea, they are mostly differentially hardened and are more brittle then European swords. If you willing to pay about 1000$ you may as well consider an Albion for the value as a collector's piece. The one problem with those, is you'll need to get a custom sheath. Valiant Armory would make one for 250$ I think. Their leather work is very epic.
 
The Busse Gladius is a bit shorter, and the handle is kind of an odd size. It is not quite a two handed grip, and long for single handed use.

It is stiff, and pretty indestructible.

The long sword they introduced is, if I remember correctly, $3000? if ordered from them. Due to it's length, it will be whippier than traditional Busse beaters. It is not designed for wood chopping, and ships with a card saying so (basically that it is not meant as a beater, and may take a set if struck against trees etc).

The AK's still sell for about $900 or so. They are tough. You can beat on them.

The Busse's are fun. They are solid, and will last through all kinds of abuse. But they are not balanced like traditional swords.



Dan Keffler, based out of Ellensburg WA makes sharp, tough Japanese "themed" swords that will cut like a laser, and are tough.


Don't rule out swords because of country of origin. If the heat treat and geometry are good, it does not matter where it is from.

A high quality sword from a maker in China can me made more cost effectively in China.

That same quality sword from another country of origin might cost you 5X more and not be of higher quality.


For keeping in the house, you might want to steer toward a shorter blade. A Chisa Katana style might be a good option.


For where you live, and considering it would be considered an option for a "just in case" sword, I would avoid any "Zombie tools" or blacked out, or "tactical" looking swords. I honestly believe you would be better off with a more traditional looking sword with a polish, and nice furniture and sheath if it came down to having to use it (speaking here about the "after" and scrutiny the use of the sword would absolutely involve). Just something to consider.
 
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My personal preferences run to kriscutlery.com and chenessinc.com.
Windlass steelcrafts have a solid reputation in stage fighting circles for hard working "battle ready" swords.
 
Dan Keffeler would be a good choice. He uses CPM 3V (which would be perfect for your purposes), and has a fantastic HT done by Peter's HT. I've got a few 3V bush dao short swords I'm finishing up for sale here in your price range which use Dan's HT protocol, and my initial testing so far indicates that they're incredibly tough but can still retain a great edge. 3V can retain toughness at a much higher hardness than other steels, which makes it perfect, IMO, for a sword. The Miller Bros do 5160 very well, and would be another good choice for a really tough sword.
 
I liked not2sharp's stuff very much. I am new to this forum and just visit the shared stuff.
I love these type of old knives. It is really good collection.
 
Anarkistic said:
Hey all.

I've recently got into blades and learnt a fair bit about knives and blade steels.

I'm looking to buy my first sword. I'm not too fussed on the style, I'd go with a katana/ roman / spartan sword or any other designs which aren't too big and cumbersome.

Importantly it has to be able to take a lot of abuse - like a Busse or Esee knife for example.

I would have got the busse gladius if it were still in production as I love the strength / toughness.

I don't like 'bendy' blades, definitely want 1/4 inch thick blade at least. The cold steel swords are all around 0.2 inches in blade thickness and from the reviews I've read the finishing isn't great especially on their katana.

Would consider going to a custom maker or buying a well respected factory brand - but I don't know where to start looking.

Budget is $500. But would pay upto $3000 for a high end handmade katana which would hold its value.

Any recommendations ? Can you point me to makers / brands / websites.

Cheers
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Well, first, welcome to the hobby!

There's some very good advice already on this thread - I'd just like to add a couple more points:

1. Know what you're planning to do with it. This may seem like a "no kidding" point, but it's actually rather important. Swords were purpose-built in ancient days, and they are purpose-built today. If you want to buy a sword so that you can learn longsword with the local WMA/HEMA group, you're going to have to buy a sword made for Western Martial Arts. If you want a backyard cutter, on the other hand, you then run into swords built to cut light targets, medium targets, and heavy targets. A sword made for light targets may not be able to handle heavy targets, and vice versa. And what a sword is designed to do will determine its edge geometry, flexibility, etc.

2. Check the reviews - you've been referred to some very good websites, and swords are put up for review very frequently. This will give you a better sense of the quality of a blade than just looking at it on a website.

3. Don't go to a custom bladesmith until you know the sword you want. I'd even argue that you should buy a couple of higher-end production models first before making the leap. When it comes to custom work, the bladesmith takes your concept and turns it into reality, fine-tuning it so that it works. But you need to know enough to present a full concept to them, in terms of the sword's handling and purpose. If you haven't handled some good swords (or a variety of swords) and know what you're looking for, you're just not going to be able to give the smith what s/he needs.

4. Don't be afraid to contact a smith or vendor and ask lots of questions. That's what they're there for.

5. When it comes down to it, buy the sword YOU want. If you really want a Roman gladius, for example, then find somebody who makes or sells one. Don't feel like you have to "settle" for anything.

Best regards to all,

Robert Marks [SPAM REMOVED - Spark]
 
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