Reasons for sharp angle on front of handle scales?

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Apr 27, 2009
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A lot of custom and production fixed blades follow a common trend for handle scale design. The front of the handle (the handle portion that terminates close to the blade) has a sharp 90 degree angle ending, without any radiusing or contouring.

I'm curious if there is a reason for this? Does it have a utility purpose? Is it very difficult for knife makers to smooth or curve this area? In use, I've found it can be slightly uncomfortable in some grips.

Below is a photo showing the hard angle at the front of a handle scale.

IMG_20150106_152357_zpse29bc0dc.jpg
 
I suspect it simplifies manufacturing.
Therefore, cheaper, quicker, simpler.

Your example picture has the same at the other end, which irritates me more. Easily fixed.
 
I suspect it simplifies manufacturing.
Therefore, cheaper, quicker, simpler.

Your example picture has the same at the other end, which irritates me more. Easily fixed.

Sharp angles at the rear of the handle can indeed be very irritating if it jabs your side in a high hip carry sheath. I have one such knife myself with stabilized maple burl scales.

Do you think I could sand this down myself, or would I not be able to replicate the knife maker finish?
 
You could probably reproduce it. Yours looks like a glossy micarta. Before you start, search the maintenance forum, or start your own how to thread. You need to make sure you have the right tools for the job, or be prepared to refinish the whole handle to a slightly different level so it all blends in. I personally have worked more with wood than micarta.
The most important thing is to protect the blade, usually with a lot of tape. Scratches can cancel out the joy of your customised handle.
 
Made to get a better spark off your firesteel ! Easy to smooth up if you don't want it I would think!?
 
I don't like that, either. Unfortunately, some of my fav brands do most of their handles that way. I live with it to get the rest of the knife, but I'd rather have them shaped and terminated a little differently.
 
I can only guess less work rounding = faster and cheaper. In some knives with leather sheaths the end of the handles are used for a stop, but even then some rounding will not impact that function.

It's not just fixed blades, there is a whole host of expensive folders, both production and custom, that have square almost sharp handle slab edges. The Spyderco Manix 2 comes to mind, it feels like a totally different knife with the square handle slab edges rounded, less blocky and with much better grip, same is true of the paramilitary 2, but it's not as pronounced as the Manix 2 is. It seems a lot of the "hard use" tactical folders have sharp edges, I guess it looks more aggressive possibly, but it's sure not very comfortable to actually use.

To me it's like a hammer with a square handle, sure it still works, but it's certainly not very ergonomic.
 
I would guess that it would fit into a block or sheath without falling in too deeply and creating damage somewhere along the line. Same can be said for stabbing as in a piece of meat/game. If the contour was too angled it would be one hell of an uncomfortable grip to boot, your hand isn't designed to securely hold things that way. But it varies by manufacturer and maker, so it's also a design element.
 
Well, the scales are kind of ramped down on the flater side on most ESEE's, are fully rounded on the Izula and Izula 2 or you can as suggested just take a range of grits re. sandpaper and get 'er done (just take care to avoid the blade steel if that's important to you...).

I adjust the fit of most of my handles to change the contouring to fit my hands better and have worked on micarta and various stabilized and unstabilized woods without issue - just wear a mask as the dust on many of them is pretty toxic (including cocobolo which is a pretty strong irritant)...

Good luck...

Ben
 
A lot of custom and production fixed blades follow a common trend for handle scale design. The front of the handle (the handle portion that terminates close to the blade) has a sharp 90 degree angle ending, without any radiusing or contouring.
I'm curious if there is a reason for this? Does it have a utility purpose? Is it very difficult for knife makers to smooth or curve this area? In use, I've found it can be slightly uncomfortable in some grips.
The squared surface at the front of the handle is explained by the makers "Yes, I left off the brass finger guard to save my time and money, but the flat surface where it belongs is still there. I tried finger guards but never could make a decent job of it."
 
Lawp:

That's funny the way you stated that but I totally agree which is why I prefer Randall Made knives over most of the modern fixed blades that lack a proper guard. I truly think even high end knives such as Busse etc. do not have a guard because it's just too difficult and expensive to do it correctly so they make these designs that can simply be cut with a laser or plasma cutter ground and attach the scales. Modern fixed blades in my opinion are not even in the same league as a forged Randall with a solid silver soldered guard. Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome fixed blades out there but in my opinion in most cases the lack of a separate guard is a corner cutting short cut done for ease of manufacture.
 
Lawp:

That's funny the way you stated that but I totally agree which is why I prefer Randall Made knives over most of the modern fixed blades that lack a proper guard. I truly think even high end knives such as Busse etc. do not have a guard because it's just too difficult and expensive to do it correctly so they make these designs that can simply be cut with a laser or plasma cutter ground and attach the scales. Modern fixed blades in my opinion are not even in the same league as a forged Randall with a solid silver soldered guard. Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome fixed blades out there but in my opinion in most cases the lack of a separate guard is a corner cutting short cut done for ease of manufacture.
Randalls have brass guards because they have hidden stick tangs. It takes a lot of screwing around to have a full tang AND a wrap around guard because you have to create the guard in place.

Hidden tang knives have guards or other caps at the blade end to hide the big ugly hole running into the handle. You only need to precisely fit the front end of the guard to the blade.


On full tang knives (which everyone currently thinks are stronger) a metal front guard means that you have to drill more weakening holes in the blade to pin the two halves, or braze it around the blade - which isn't so hot for heat treatment.



In terms of the OP, when you're permanently mounting slabs on a blade, you pre-finish the sides of the blade and the front ends of the slabs because grinding that inside corner later risks screwing up both. Then you pin and epoxy the slabs on and grind them flush to the exposed tang, rounding that grind into the side. Doing this the "safe" way means avoiding getting the grinder anywhere near the side of the blade, which is why knives of that construction tend to be squarish at the front of the slabs where the pre-finished part of the scale meets the post mounting finishing.

It really isn't about lazyness - it is a smart practice that in no way negatively impacts function.

ESEE's and Beckers have bolt on scales, so they can be completely finished away from the blade, which makes it safe to round the front end.


All of these methods involve shortcuts, so talking about one as cost cutting is ridiculous. Only something like a CRK Project 1 avoids shortcuts by creating the blade, guard and handle out of one continuous piece of metal. Most everything else is a way to produce a knife with the least amount of unnecessary work.
 
I have an inexpensive custom that came with the micarta sharp like this. Easily fixed in a couple minutes with some sand paper.
 
Thanks for all the education guys. So most common answer seems to be it's very difficult to shape, as the shaping happens after the scales are permanently attached.

In regards to the handle butt with maple burl I have...sounds technical to fix. I will continue reading.
 
RX-79G

"Randalls have brass guards because they have hidden stick tangs. It takes a lot of screwing around to have a full tang AND a wrap around guard because you have to create the guard in place.

Hidden tang knives have guards or other caps at the blade end to hide the big ugly hole running into the handle. You only need to precisely fit the front end of the guard to the blade."


This is not at all accurate. SOME Randalls such as the Model 1 do indeed have stick tangs but other models such as the model 14, model 15, and others have a full tang and all still have guards.
Take a look at any photo of a Randall model 14 and it will look exactly the same as the OPs photo. While full tang Randalls are not full height they are FAR from a stick tang.
My personal model 15 Airman has what they refer to as a "cut down tang", which means the tang remains the full 1/4 inch thickness but is cut in height to about half an inch. This allows for a 1/4 inch thick full but still hidden tang.
It of course has a solid nickel silver double guard. Making a high end knife in this manner is on a whole new level compared to the current slab blank with scales attached ala, Esse, Busse, RAT, etc. I'm not knocking the latter knives, I'm just saying
they are designed to be much cheaper to produce by eliminating the guard.
 
It does provide a good hold for side cuts, but I suspect its for cost reasons. Its an aesthetic feature that very few really care about, thus little incentive to actually spend the time/money for it.
 
Thanks for all the education guys. So most common answer seems to be it's very difficult to shape, as the shaping happens after the scales are permanently attached.

In regards to the handle butt with maple burl I have...sounds technical to fix. I will continue reading.

It's only difficult to shape if you do it after the handle slabs are affixed in place.
After the pin holes are drilled and before the scales are epoxied into place is the time to shape the front of the handle.
Put the scales together and align them with the pins in place.
Shape away. When shaped and polished they can be affixed to the tang. No more work on them is necessary.

As to the square edges... it is way easier to square up and polish a square handle like that than it is to evenly contour the handle front and have it match side to side. Squared end is just a matter of pushing the blocks against the platen. Done & off to polish.
 
precisionshootist said:
This is not at all accurate. SOME Randalls such as the Model 1 do indeed have stick tangs but other models such as the model 14, model 15, and others have a full tang and all still have guards.
Take a look at any photo of a Randall model 14 and it will look exactly the same as the OPs photo. While full tang Randalls are not full height they are FAR from a stick tang.
My personal model 15 Airman has what they refer to as a "cut down tang", which means the tang remains the full 1/4 inch thickness but is cut in height to about half an inch. This allows for a 1/4 inch thick full but still hidden tang.
It of course has a solid nickel silver double guard. Making a high end knife in this manner is on a whole new level compared to the current slab blank with scales attached ala, Esse, Busse, RAT, etc. I'm not knocking the latter knives, I'm just saying
they are designed to be much cheaper to produce by eliminating the guard.
That is not a full tang. Because the lower half of the tang is smaller than the ricasso, they can slide the guard over the tang. Call it a semi-full tang or whatever, but it isn't necessarily stronger than a thick stick tang. A Cold Steel Trailmaster also has 1/4x1/2" tang - it just doesn't stick out on top of the handle. And because the Randall's tang is not the full height of the ricasso, it is not as strong as a similar full tang blade.

If you were watching a Randall 14 being assembled, you'd see that the slot in the guard is actually much larger than the tang and the lower half of the wraparound slab covers the extra part of that slot.

And I'm not picking on Randall. These are all valid methods for making a knife. They also all require some sort of compromise during construction to avoid machining or finishing anywhere near the inside corner of the guard/scales and ricasso. Randall's compromise is using less than a full tang. The OP knife ends up with a sharp edge because of the order of assembly. Neither are bad - neither are perfect. Both are manufacturing compromises.

And you can curve everything as Ebbtide points out. But part of the reason for the corner is because of the aesthetics of having a sharp line where the scale meets the spine. If you round the outer edge you have to round the edge where it meets the spine. A square spine edge and rounded side looks bad - so you choose one or the other.
 
A lot of custom and production fixed blades follow a common trend for handle scale design. The front of the handle (the handle portion that terminates close to the blade) has a sharp 90 degree angle ending, without any radiusing or contouring.

I'm curious if there is a reason for this?

It's just easier... one less step to deal with.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is either blowing smoke or justifying "solutions" to a problem that doesn't exist.

Whether or not you think it's a big deal is entirely up to you. Some folks don't care at all. I try to avoid sharp corners like that based on the majority of my customers' feedback. I've never had anyone specifically ask for edgy, blocky handles... ;)

If you round the outer edge you have to round the edge where it meets the spine. A square spine edge and rounded side looks bad - so you choose one or the other.

Not really. It's not that difficult to shape a bit of radius on the front of the scale after it's mounted to the blade, and achieve both a comfortable front and crisp "joint" where it meets the spine. You just have to exercise a bit of care to avoid scratching up the blade.
 
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