Renaldi's soon to be built by Topp's knives (SAD!!!).

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hunter301

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May 18, 2003
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I saw an article today in tactical knives where Trace Renaldi is going to have his Armaggedon made by Topp's Knives. It is also listed in the Topp's catalogue.
While I don't hold anything against Topp's for a production knife I think that the original steel finished Armaggedon is the only Renaldi. It is a georgeous piece of metal when finished. All topps knive are black epoxy coated. I hope Trace Renaldi will still offer the original version of his knife not made by Topps.
It seams like every time we get used to somebody putting out a beautiful knife like Renaldi they sell out to some big production "stamp" manufacuter who slaps an ugly black epoxy coating on it and still tries to call it an original. The design may be the same but unless it is still built the same way it is not the same knife. Tom Brown did the same thing with the Tracker knife.
I guess Ferhman will be next. Who knows.
 
AFAIK, the production version of the Armageddon has been available for a while now. He still offers the handmade version.
 
Exactly Owen, there is absolutely no shame in what Trace has done. It is good for him and good for the knife industry and definitely not, selling out.
 
... Steve Ryan doing a collaboration with CRKT. Fred Perrin did one with Spyderco. So did Bill Moran. There is a plethora of others. Cold Steel had Phil Boguszewski, Barry Dawson, and Lloyd Pendelton. Ernest Emerson did it way back with Benchmade and they had a host of others, too. There is Ethan Becker and Camillus. Heck - Buck and Strider is good for everyone. I could go on. It made it easier for people with less money to obtain a knife with it's design influenced from a custom maker. No waiting periods and much more economical. Everybody wins. We all have to make a living and custom makers are no different. Sometimes a factory can pump out a quality product just as well as a custom maker and it makes their knives more accessible to the general buying public. Even though the public doesn't know jack, it helps to promtoe the makers and their knives. I think selling out is when the quality of the product representative of the custom maker falls short of being crap. Then that is a problem and it becomes a true selling out.... especially for any present, as well as future potential, customers.
 
Jack Crain did a "custom collabaration" years ago to have some of his movie knives reproduced and some of them came out great and are now collectors items, but most of them were made from inferior materials overseas which was a breach of contract. Jack took them on in Federal court and won. They can never produce his knives again. Jack is also the only maker I know who actually has his designs cpoywritten and PATENTED.

I guess you never really know what you're getting when you buy a mass produced knife, or anything else for that matter.
 
The custom collaborations also give you a cheaper means of trying a design. That way you know if you want to go for the custom version or not.

Paul
 
I would like to say something that Hunter kind of brought up in his post. Note: this isn't directed at any specific company, but kind of a heads up to all of them.

I love factory collaborations for all of the reasons that Owen said. One thing I don't understand though is that some of these collaboration products end up being way to expensive, in my opinion. Yeah, it is capitalism and you can charge what you think you can get, blah blah blah. That isn't my point! My point is why buy factory collaboration knife X when you can save up $50 more and get a real custom? I don't kno why some collaboration knives end up being so expensive. Maybe it is machining costs, lower production runs, fancier materials, whatever. I just don't see the point in buying a factory collaboration knife if it is in the price range of a real deal custom.
 
alot of makers are doing collabaration's because of various reasons. Rob Simonich made his mid-tech line because he has a huge backlog and is no longer taking orders. Trace also has a huge backorder and isnt taking any new orders and might not for awhile. Along time ago I suggested to Trace that he might wanna look into doing a collabartion with TOPS in order to make a version thats less expensive and would get his name out there in the public eye. Even if you could order an armageddon from Trace it would cost 450.00 in it's most basic form and last I heard it would take you about 7-8 months to get it, with the TOPS version you'll have it in a week or so. Are the TOPS version as good no, are they functional yes, what TOPS offers is a well made product at a reasonable price that you dont have to wait for.
 
Originally posted by Crayola
My point is why buy factory collaboration knife X when you can save up $50 more and get a real custom?
Click to expand...

Cray, I am a little confused by this comment. Are you saying that it is possible to save up $50.00 more and get the custom version of the same knife, or that you can save up $50.00 more and get some kind of custom knife? I have never seen a case where the production knife was within $50.00 of the maker's own knife. Cost differences have usally been in the hundreds of dollars. Take the Kit Carson/CRKT M-16, M-18, Tom Mayo/Buck TNT, or the Fisk/Camillus OVB Bowies for examples. Though some of these knives are expensive, they are no where near the price of the custom versions.

The fact that Trace had the opportunity to do a quality collaboration with TOPS does not in any way deserve any condemnation. It is not selling out, it is good business. If you wish, you can get an original Armageddon, but if you would like to get an idea of what this knife is like and can't afford the original then the TOPS knife offers you this opportunity. If the collaboration knife were a POS then there would be good reason to claim that Trace had sold out, but since that is definitely not the case, I feel that Trace has been wrongly denigrated.
 
Keith, allow me to clarify.

The $50 number I added was just a throw-out number. Cyblade said that an Armageddon from Trace is $450, when Trace is taking orders (he's so dang popular now that he's all booked up!) An Armageddon from TOPS costs $299. That blade is hadn ground as well (as far as I know), and I am not saying that the TOPS blade is crap or anything. I did not have the Armageddon or Tops or Trace in mind at all when I made my comment.

All I mean is that some collaborations are such that the price between the collaboration and the piece from the maker I think would make peopel either keep saving for the custom, or buy something else. First off, let's take Kit Carson and the Outdoor Edge Magna folder. A Model 4 from Kit is something like $450. The Outdoor Edge Magna retails for $50 (zytel handle) to $100 (Aluminum), I believe. Now a guy who has a little bit of money would do very well getting the CRKT. You get a great design in good materials for a price much lower than the custom maker's price. Also, a person wanting to spend $50 to $100 knows that they aren't in the range of customs at all. But as the price of these collaborations rise closer to the price of the actual custom knife, people will have more incentive to keep saving. At 1/9th the cost of the custom piece, lots of folks will buy the OE Magna. But as that ratio gap closes, there is a greater incentive to keep on saving. Also, it isn't just the gap, but the actual price you have to concern yourself over. A collaboration that costs 1/2 of what, say, a Model 4 from Kit costs would be $225. For $225, there are all kinds of other knives that a person would start to consider. I don;t know if I am makign myself clear at all, but allow me to make an analogy. How much would you shop around if you had $100 000 to shop around with for a car? Personally, I'd research the heck out of that purchase. For me, if somrthing costs more than $20 I usually read TONS about it before I spend. So if you are going to spend $50 on a folder, that is one thing. But as the price of a knife rises, I think that most people start to look around a bit more to make sure they are getting the most for their bucks. That is one point I'd like to make. Here's the second. If there was a factory collaboration of, say Kit's model 4 for 1/2 the price of the custom, that would sell well. But I also think that a lot of folks, by the time they saved up the $250, would have a great incentive to just keep on saving for the custom. I know that I am that way, and I suspect that others are like that as well. There is incentive, I think, to keep factory collaboration prices, and factory knife prices in general, low as compared to the custom stuff. That is all I wanted to draw out.

But please I do not want anyone thinking that I say Trace is selling out or anything. I think Trace's knives kick butt, and I have exchanged e-mail swith him before. He has given me great advice on knife making in the past. Also, I think that TOPS is a great company, and is much misunderstood. From what I know, most TOPS knives are ground by hand and they get a lot of the little details right on, such as handle contouring and such. I just wanted to draw out a point that I think was in Hunter's post. I don't think that a custom maker putting together a collaboration with a factory is selling out at all. Perhaps I should have started a new thread to generate a discussion about the point I wanted to draw out. If I confused anyone else, then to you keith and those folks, I apologize.
 
I don't have a problem with the question, but why is it asked in more that one place? ANd the tone seems a little inflammatory to me. By the way, the man's name is RINALDI.
 
Two things, first of all, i can afford the TOPPs version, not the real vresion from Trace. Secondly, Last I knew Trace was running at LEAST a year waiting, and almost sure it's closer to multiple yeras. Purchasing one from TOPP would get it to me now
 
Obviously nobody has sold out. I speak to other points in this thread.
$300.00 / $450.00 not a huge difference in price. If you can afford one you could likely afford the other. But I think the point is; a number of people including myself will not pay custom money for a production knife. So some collaborations are less interesting. There are a number of high end production knives that sell well and have a cult like following but I am not one of them. I would just rather find, or have made, a custom knife if I am going to spend $300.00.
As far as having it tomorrow, I find a large part of knife collecting is anticipating the receipt of your new knife.
 
If you are bag on someone atleast spell his name right .

I am happy for Trace to have this collab with TOPS . It is a hell of a good thing , get the Rinaldi name out to more people . Trace is a cool cat whom I call a friend and someone whom I respect .

Simple as this , you like the real deal then get the Rinaldi if not get the TOPS , but don't diss Trace whatever your do.

:mad:
 
Yeah that Trace Renaldi dude is a dumba$$ sellout!! I hate him...:( Thanks guys, I appreciate the backup... You have made all the points as well as I could have...
 
Originally posted by hunter301
I saw an article today in tactical knives where Trace Renaldi is going to have his Armaggedon made by Topp's Knives. It is also listed in the Topp's catalogue.
While I don't hold anything against Topp's for a production knife I think that the original steel finished Armaggedon is the only Renaldi. It is a georgeous piece of metal when finished. All topps knive are black epoxy coated. I hope Trace Renaldi will still offer the original version of his knife not made by Topps.
It seams like every time we get used to somebody putting out a beautiful knife like Renaldi they sell out to some big production "stamp" manufacuter who slaps an ugly black epoxy coating on it and still tries to call it an original. The design may be the same but unless it is still built the same way it is not the same knife. Tom Brown did the same thing with the Tracker knife.
I guess Ferhman will be next. Who knows.
Click to expand...
What a dope!! You start this stuff and then dont reply. Are you sure you can read or did you get all of your info from looking at the pictures and having a kid read the captions. Trace is a stand up guy with allot of heart and his contrbutions to the knife industry are more than a dimwit like you could understand. I think an explnation is in order.
 
Is everyone in these type of forums reading with there ears closed.
Read the post for what it said:
"While I don't hold anything against Topp's for a production knife I think that the original steel finished Armaggedon is the only Renaldi. It is a georgeous piece of metal when finished. All topps knive are black epoxy coated. I hope Trace Renaldi will still offer the original version of his knife not made by Topps."

My point being that every time something good is around and gets popular some big company comes along buys out the patent, design whatever starts to manufacture mass quantities. If it is still available thru Trace no matter how long the wait, great. Then this does not apply. Hell I might even buy one of the Tops made for using out in the feild. I am hesitant about using a knife as beautiful as the original Rinaldi out in the field. At least not until I could afford one to keep and one to use.
I guess it's true when they say: "People only see what they want to see.
Let me read it again a little louder for the slower people:
"I HOPE TRACE RINALDI WILL STILL OFFER THE ORIGINAL VERSION OF HIS KNIFE NOT MADE BY T0PS."
Again I have nothing against Tops, I would probably use one with no problem, but if they can sell supposedly the same knife for $150-$250 cheaper then Rinaldi can, depending on the version somethings either missing or different. My father told me something years ago that has shown itself to be true time and again:
"You get what you pay for!"
Has anybody even been able to do any actual field testing on the Tops/Rinaldi Armageddon. "AGAIN I AM ONLY ASKING, HAS IT BEEN TESTED?"

I only have one beef with Tops. Go to the following link
http://www.topsknives.com/graphics/blade_april03LG.jpg
On the cover of Blade magazine is says:
"Tops knife co-stars with Benicio Del Toro in The Hunted."
It was not Tops knife that was used in the movie, it was in fact the Dave Beck Survival knife that was originally designed and built between Dave Beck and Tom Brown before they had a falling out.
If you don't beleive me let your eyes tell you the truth. Go to
http://www.beckknives.com/Feedback_Form.html and look at his original version of the tracker then go to http://www.huntedmovie.com/home.html and watch the trailer and freeze frame the close ups of the knife. I don't know about you but it looks a lot different than the Tops knife.
Again this is my only beef with Tops. I am sure their Tracker knife is of excellent quality but don't take credit for something that didn't happen.
On another note someone mentioned in another post how Tops has a small shop with a small number of handpicked people building their knives. Well there web page list at least 20 -25 different types of knives and of those types they have two or three different versions. Right now there is only a one to two week waiting period of a Tops knife if any wait at all. Now you times that by the number of sales being done daily and somehow I don't see their shop being so small anymore.

To cap this I have nothing against Trace's collaberation as long as he does not stop making his originals. If he did then the only Trace you could ever get would be a Top's version. Somehow it's just not the same if you are looking for one to collect. Owning a knife by the original maker holds a lot more value than the same design by a manufacurer.
The way I see it Trace I would take it as a compliment.
 
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