Results: W-1 vs. W-2

Raymond Richard

Raymond Richard

Joined
Jun 17, 2001
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Just finished my cutting test. I bought 10' of 1/2" manilla rope. W-1 with a edge of 3 1/2" got 26 cuts. W-2 with a edge of 3 1/4" got 34 cuts. Used our bathroom scale to cut on and tried to keep all the cuts at 40 pounds or less. I did two two hour cycles at 350 degrees. Next time I think I'll raise that to about 400 but wanted both blades good and hard for the test.
 
Do you mean to say that you used the scales to gage the weight of edge against the rope? Is manilla rope something special as far as harder to cut through?

I'll have to look at my papers but is two hours per temper more than necessary for the W series? I agree that the end product should be tempered at 400 minimum. What temp. did you austenitize and how long did you soak?

Sounds interesting and sharing testings are always helpful to all us.

Thanks.

RL
 
IIRC, these two steels are supposed to be almost identical, with W-2 having some vanadium. What do you think accounts for the differing performance?
 
If W1 has no vanadium that alone could account for part of it. Vanadium carbides are of the hardest we have available to our blade chemestry.

RL
 
With the small amounts of vanadium in W2 it probably acts more as a grain refiner than carbide former.
 
Roger, These are not stainless steel so no need to soakem. I'll be trying it again in the future with a 400 degree draw. I clay hardened both the blades about as close as I could get to each other. The W-1 blade came out real close to the pattern I put on it. The W-2 hardened up alot higher thinking that the vanadium made it harden deeper than the W-1. I would think the little vanadium made the difference in the perfomance. The W-2 is suppossed to hold an edge better than the W-1. Wayne Goddard had given me both the steels and was wanting me to do the test. He's also going to do a simular test. First time for me doing something like this. My hands are always sore but after doing this test my hands are very sore. I believe the manilla rope is the same rope used in the knife cutting compititions except they use 1". I was surprized how tuff it was to cut......
 
Soaking, 10 minutes or more, is necessary to completely dissolve the carbide and diffuse it through the steel.
 
Keep us up dated as it progresses. I have not yet worked any of the W series but have wondered about it. Obviously, as its designater tells us, it is shallow hardening.

I am glad Mete chimed in on the soak. All medium to high carbon steels, I believe, require a certain period at temperature and a little longer is better than a little shorter. Mete would know better about that though than I. I think I learned that from Mete.

RL
 
Raymond, you da man. Keep us up to date on how it works out and how well you like it (them) as a blade steel. Are you HT'ing in a forge? I suspect you are but don't know that for sure. If so, hold and watch for the shadows to completely dissapear. Pull and quench at that time. The shadows should persist for a few minutes and may appear to move as they become less in volume or just become less in volume. Quench immediately when completely gone from sight. See what happens.

RL
 
You know I like the the W-2 :D

I heat-treat in a forge, so I don't have the ability to soak the blade. I do rotate it in and out a little (I guess a "mini-soak") to ensure that the blade gets up to critical under the clay without overheating the rest. I gotta know though, what's the point of soaking carbon steel once the whole blade has reached critical?

Edited to add: Man I wish I had an oven. :( :)
 
I've got both and oven and a forge. Normally I'll use the forge and just use the oven on blades that are to large to do properly in the forge. I'm going to be heading down to Wayne's in a few hours and I'm sure we'll be talking about the results I got.
 
Burchtree said:
You know I like the the W-2 :D
what's the point of soaking carbon steel once the whole blade has reached critical?
Edited to add: Man I wish I had an oven. :( :)
Click to expand...

Mike there wouldn't be a problem if the back didn't get it for ten minutes
as long as the edge got it,for ten minutes if that is what you're getting at. :)
 
Dan -- no, I was talking about the blade as a whole, with clay-coating the whole blade needs to be up to par before quenching, the clay is to slow the quench down, not to heat the edge up.


Mete -- :rolleyes: Didn't see your post, no reason to respond in that manner.
 
Burchtree said:
Dan -- no, I was talking about the blade as a whole, with clay-coating the whole blade needs to be up to par before quenching, the clay is to slow the quench down, not to heat the edge up.

.
Click to expand...

with clay-coating,, the whole blade does not have to be up to heat
for most intent proposes
you only need to have the edge up to temp for the required time

for what other reason would want to heat the rest up for???
it would be mundane to do..if that is the right word for it.
 
As far as the blade goes, you get uniform structure throughout the metal if it's all heated to the same temp. You shouldn't depend on your clay to force the transition line, you should treat your blade so the transition line wants to be by the clay, and the clay is used to define and "anap it in place." I worded that horribly, but I got that from a fellow that does some wonderful hamons. Another part a fully-heated blade places is when you do a full quench, and do a thorough heat, a thinner spine will harden marginally and keep your blade edge from stretching and cracking (not all the time though). :D

I'm sure I didn't word much of that right and I'm by no means an expert on the stuff.
 
thinner spine will harden marginally:

I agree as long as the clay, heat and quench is perfect
as to the Hamon line
we're talking critical point in transition or the line would be quite wide I'd think? still depending on the thickness of the clay ?

and thinking the softer the spine the better the line? :confused:

don't let me yank your leg to hard... :D
 
Actually, I'm talking about a thinner layer of clay on the spine. It allows the spine to heat a little and adds some stability to the curvature of the uncoated portion of the blade. The line can be moved with just the time in quenchant, type of quenchant, etc. Once you get the transition line where you want, the clay will define it even more.

To make a long story short, if you don't get your heat up past your clay, you're going to end up with a hamon line lower than you want. :D


Raymond -- sorry for any hijacking. :)
 
oh
the averaging of the heat :D

kind of like using it for faults edges and double edges too... :D


:)
sorry Ray I'm just having fun..

Mike I do the same thing with 1095,, by it self with no back treating it makes for a very weak blade now I'm talking stock ground not forged guys,,
because I know your going to get a stiffer blade from the act of the forging
anyway unless you fully and completely anneal it.

oh... let me count thee ways to heat treat...I'll have to take my shoes of for this one.. :)
 
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