scored an anvil!

MarkJeffrey

MarkJeffrey

Joined
Nov 7, 2013
Messages
262
I got this old anvil off a guy, I was using a really heavy 3 inch wall thick I beam til now. This is about 150 pounds or so. Any suggestions on cleaning it up? the edges are a bit beat on it,. the tops pretty flat but not perfect. Should I grind everything smotth and square or leave it alone?

 
Can probably take it to a machine or engine shop. They can surface the top so that it is clean and flat. Don't take off any more than you need to to get it flat.
 
Looks like a PW or maybe Arm and Hammer to me, but not a Vulcan.

I wouldn't take it to a machine shop. Just use some flap wheels on an angle grinder to skim around and get things flatter. Try not to create low spots. A machine shop may take off too much and cost a lot, when if it's pretty flat under that rust you can clean it up yourself.
 
The flats on the feet say PW to me. Wire brush and use it. It will shine up nice and pretty with use. If by chance you can't be talked out of machining it, make sure to machine the bottom first to make it parallel with the face.

mark
 
Thanks guys, I have a milling machine.. I could skim the top real light with it I suppose? Maybe I'll clean it up with out doing that though,. see how it works, and I'll use the mill as a last resort. I'll look to see if there's any letters or marks on it as to who the maker is.
 
I agree with the others-wire wheel and/or flap wheel on an angle grinder. Mine was in not quite as bad a condition as far as the amount of surface rust (ACME anvil made in 1907). It had chipped edges so I took the grinding wheel to it on the sides in an effort to get them more square. In hindsight, I kind of wish I'd just left them alone. You might be surprised how flat you can get something on an anvil with slight dips or variations...which seems counter-intuitive. If all you do is clean it up a bit and after some use you find it really needs more work, you've lost little. If you go straight to removing material, you can never get that back.

Either way you go, great find. I love old anvils.


Jeremy
 
Never mill an anvil. First, as this one is forged, the feet and face aren't guaranteed to be parallel. You could take off too much and ruin the anvil. As said, start with cleaning it with a wire wheel. Forging alone will clean up the anvil pretty well.

Anvils and Japanese swords are both ruined ever too often by guys with grinders. :D
 
Why do people always recommend milling an anvil flat? I've never understood that mentality.

It's a good anvil as-is. Brush the rust off and go to forging on it. Maybe in a year you'll see something that you don't like and will want to smooth over the edges with a belt sander. But that's a huge maybe.

Forge on it. Enjoy it. It'll last you a hundred years.
 
If you're looking for the face/base parallel, mill the bottom of the anvil... Never the face...

I got money on it being a Boker Trenton or a PW... Weather it's marked in pounds or stone weight will be the tell... :D
 
Thanks for the comments, I still havnt got to use it I've been hard at it trying to rearrange my shop. What will milling the anvil actually do to harm it? I'm not going to,. I'm just more curious now as to why not to
 
Reasons why... That's a wrought iron mass with a tool steel top plate forge welded on top. The plates thickness varies in thickness depending on it's overall size, but usually never exceeds 1"... Fishers are an exception because they adhered a double-thick tool steel plate in their castings... Any steel you remove from the face of that anvil, it's gone, and you wont get it back unless you weld on it...

I'll show you what happens with pictures... stay tuned for the edit.

If your anvil isn't a peter wright, it's a german trenton... This anvil is also a german trenton/ boker trenton (yes same as the blade manufacturer)... I presume someone milled the top on this one, because they also milled the side...

Top plate was 5mm thick when I got it...

IMG_0281_zpsb7ef6c4b.jpg


You can see the milling on the side, which tells me someone with a milling machine owned it at one time...

photo3-1_zpse8f45dee.jpg


This is what happens when you have so little top plate on the anvil...

phototrenton_zps7ca5bddc.jpg


This anvil was ruined. I brought it back to service via specialized build-up filler/ hard-facing rod and donated it to a non-profit nature center that put on demos/classes for kids...


If you mill anvil it can lose its hardness due to the nature of the material underneath the top plate being softer... While the tool steel might still keep it's temper, it will deform...Wrought is very soft in comparison to tool steel. That's why over time, heavily worked areas of the anvil will dip... Sometimes this is called "broken back" or "sway-back"... This even happens with anvils that keep much of their top plate, the soft wrought just deforms over time...

A few hours of forging will clean up the face more than you'd ever expect, if your not patient enough for that use a knotted wire brush on an angle grinder. I have never had any issue dressing an anvil with a light flap-wheel disk either...
 
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Boker contracted out the manufacturing of the anvil base to Peter Wright that's why there are so many distinct similarities between the two. Boker Trenton Anvils have the same flats on the feet and the same circular stamp; "solid wrought", the tell is the diamond (much like a trenton diamond) and the fact that the Boker anvil was marked in pounds rather than stone. You can see the clear "168" on my anvil between the feet, as well as the circular stamp just above it... Bokers usually have # stamps on the cutting table just before the horn... If you look in that area in the pic, mine was marked with a 5 stamp.
 
And now I have the perfect link to post to anyone asking about anvil milling/resurfacing in the future! Great explanation, SP.
 
MarkJeffrey said:
Thanks for clarifying that, I assumed they were a solid mass.
Click to expand...

I'm just glad you were curious enough to ask. Hopefully you can pass it on to the next guy, and he can pass it on to another. Once the rust, dust, and paint are removed from an anvil, they actually reveal themselves to be quite complex when it comes to composition and manufacture, particularly the built-up wrought iron makes. From old colonials to the turn of the century modern wrought iron makes, the seams where the pieces of wrought are forged together and built up become less and less visible.

Salem Straub said:
And now I have the perfect link to post to anyone asking about anvil milling/resurfacing in the future! Great explanation, SP.
Click to expand...

I sincerely appreciate that.... Now if I could only propagate the "don't weld on your anvil with XXX18!!!".... :D
 
Is there any reason you couldn't just weld a new tool steel face on an anvil? I suppose that you'd have to heat treat it then though...
 
Chris Pierce said:
Is there any reason you couldn't just weld a new tool steel face on an anvil? I suppose that you'd have to heat treat it then though...
Click to expand...

Yes, but it would have to be a homogenous weld in order to prevent vibration (energy sucker)... So you could forge weld a new top plate on like they did in the days of grit and sweat, re;quench and temper....

so cool...

[video=youtube_share;eA_Pw5mlf2U]http://youtu.be/eA_Pw5mlf2U[/video]


I call B.S. on this method of quench...

[video=youtube_share;b5noM1NnXeE]http://youtu.be/b5noM1NnXeE[/video]



-Or-, if I were to go that route;

1) some sort of pre-hardened/air hardening/flame hardening steel cut/drilled and congruent to the face,
2) weld 1/2" square down the center and around the hardy as a spacer, forcibly slap it on top of the current weak face...
3) Arc Weld for hours, one root pass of 6011 followed by a couple pounds of 7018, moving from one side to the other every couple of passes to prevent warpage, each pass spending a good 5 minutes digging out any slag or inclusions.
4) Keeping in mind the heat of the anvil; controlled tempering...

It's easier to weld... The "Gunter method" has held up to the hype. The method always seems to carry positive feedback by those that use it as it yields consistent results of 52c face. Others say Messer MG710 works better.

Gunter Method >http://www.cvbg.org/anvilrepair699.pdf
 
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