Securing a knot in paracord

[Sharp & Fiery]

Like others have said...melting helps alot.
With a diamond knot I usually melt both ends together...nicely. Lol. Pics below.
And I basically do the same for all other fob ties as well. No problems yet.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Thanks for the response. Knots are really kool and the right knot would do away with the need for a substance to make the knot hold. Unfortunately, I don't know how to tie them. Hence, the need for another solution.

Google knot guide. Lots of info on useful knots on-line. If you are a fanatic, get the Ashley Book of Knots with about 3,900 examples -- I have a copy but haven't mastered more than about 1%.

 

[RustyIron]

Knot strength is not a matter of melting, burning, gluing, or whipping. It's all about internal friction of the knot. Nothing else comes close.

 

[bgentry]

Hi my name is Brian and I'm a knot geek.

<crowd responds> Hi Brian...

As a knot geek, I naturally think that melting, glueing, and most forms of mechanical connection are the wrong approach. Good knots should hold on their own without the need for aids or crutches.

If what you want is a simple loop (just a circle of rope), then not much beats the double fisherman's bend.
https://www.animatedknots.com/double-fishermans-bend-knot

This knot becomes nearly "permanent" when cinched down and should not come untied unless you are using some exotic and unusual rope. It should hold REALLY strongly in paracord. Just pull the ends nice and tight. Then snip them off and melt the ends so they don't unravel.

If you don't need a circle, but you just want a secure attachment point to the lanyard hole in the knife or sheath, then a Scaffold Hitch is extremely secure:
https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/scaffold-knot

Notice that both of these knots self secure. Meaning that the knot body wraps over and traps the tail end. So the end that might come untied in some knots, is strangled and held in place so it can't come undone when you don't want it to. The Scaffold Hitch will become extremely tight if you pull the tail end nice and snug. Then, as before, snip the tail off to an appropriate length and melt the end so it does not unravel.

You can easily combine a few knots to form all kinds of interesting lanyards. It just depends on what you want it to look like and what you want it to do.

Brian.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

A double or triple fisherman's knot is both pretty to look at, and secure with slippery material.

The Double Fisherman's bend is quite simple and secure in a reasonably high friction line like paracord. Its only disadvantage is that it jams, so it can be very hard to untie after loading.

If what you want is a simple loop (just a circle of rope), then not much beats the double fisherman's bend.

I'm seeing a pattern emerge.

 

[Bearbreeder]

Ive had double fishermans come undone

They wont come undone UNDER LOAD

However when not under load they may work loose depending on the cord or rope you time it with

Remember that in climbing and rope access scenarios even static rope have some stretch and they sheaths arent as slick as paracord

Also the knots are loaded a few hundred pounds when first weighted, so the double fisherman on those knots dont generally work loose

However for a lanyard that is loaded with maybe a fee hundred grams, they can come loose over time

If you want something that will never come loose ditch the paracord and use 2-3 mm stretchy cord

Stretchy cord, like dynamic ropes, are much less likely to have knots come loose after the initial weighting

I use these knots daily on various materials

 

[Danke42]

Just tie an overhand loop.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Remember that in climbing and rope access scenarios even static rope have some stretch and they sheaths arent as slick as paracord

Also the knots are loaded a few hundred pounds when first weighted, so the double fisherman on those knots dont generally work loose

Paracord is also nylon kernmantle and although I think it typically does not receive autoclave conditioning it still has plenty of stretch. Dress the knot, load the loop to around a kilonewton (as you implicitly suggested), cut and fuse the tails, and it won't come undone. Make it a triple-fishermans if you're paranoid.

 

[Bearbreeder]

Paracord is also nylon kernmantle and although I think it typically does not receive autoclave conditioning it still has plenty of stretch. Dress the knot, load the loop to around a kilonewton (as you implicitly suggested), cut and fuse the tails, and it won't come undone. Make it a triple-fishermans if you're paranoid.

Or you can just use 2 stacked overhands

Its what i use for water bottles with stretchy cord

And i test those by swinging them overhand and smashing em into to cliffs

 

[Mr.Wizard]

B Bearbreeder You mean two flat overhands one above the other? Have you tried a surgeon's knot instead?

 

[Bearbreeder]

B Bearbreeder You mean two flat overhands one above the other? Have you tried a surgeon's knot instead?

One cardinal rule of being on a rope is to keep things simple and extremely stupid

Because when one is in the side of a rock face a few hundred metres up in the dark with a storm approaching at freezing temps, you had better be able to tie every knot correctly every time

So im not a fan of using different knots for no or little gain when simple common ones will do

 

[bgentry]

Ive had double fishermans come undone

Under what circumstances? Were the knots set nice and firmly?

I'm guessing it was with larger diameter rope that's really firm. Something that you might use (coincidentally) in climbing. The double fisherman sets so hard in typical paracord that you almost can't untie it. I can't imagine any circumstance which would have it "fall apart" in paracord.

Brian.

 

[Bearbreeder]

Under what circumstances? Were the knots set nice and firmly?

I'm guessing it was with larger diameter rope that's really firm. Something that you might use (coincidentally) in climbing. The double fisherman sets so hard in typical paracord that you almost can't untie it. I can't imagine any circumstance which would have it "fall apart" in paracord.

Brian.

On paracord and 5-7 mm static cord no less, eventually it can work its way loose

Not all paracord is the same

The double fishermans never comes apart on climbing ropes as they are all dynamic or semi static

There a reason they recommend enough tail and checking knots in life critical applications

 

[Mr.Wizard]

B Bearbreeder Did you load the knotted paracord enough to induce stretching? Approximately speaking if it has 30% elongation at a breaking strength of 550 pounds then to stretch it 10% you need to load it with 1 kN (225 pounds), or in a loop to 2 kN (450 lbs). (see the black line for Nylon 6,6 in the plot below)

There a reason they recommend enough tail and checking knots in life critical applications.

Absolutely!

 

[Bearbreeder]

B Bearbreeder Did you load the knotted paracord enough to induce stretching? Approximately speaking if it has 30% elongation at a breaking strength of 550 pounds then to stretch it 10% you need to load it with 1 kN (225 pounds), or in a loop to 2 kN (450 lbs). (see the black line for Nylon 6,6 in the plot below)

Absolutely!

Yup

What i have found over the years is that how a knot stays tied depends on alot on the material

Specifically the sheath

Ive had cord that has no issues, and others that seem to want to untie

Only way to tell for sure is to use it

 

[bgentry]

So far I've done no knot tying that is "life critical". I kind of like it that way.

However, I definitely use stopper knots on most knots that I want to stay in place long term. I found out recently that a backhand hitch I tied to a roll up garage type door, had started to come loose. The stopper knot kept it from letting go. I retied that one as a Scaffold Hitch instead. I think that one will not unravel no matter what. In a few months I'll see if I'm right.

For anyone tying knots that need to stay in place, learn a few stopper knots. The Stevedore Stopper is my favorite.
https://www.animatedknots.com/stevedore-stopper-knot

Brian.