sewing machine

sheathmaker said:
The swing out stitch guide is, in fact, an optional accessory, but I believe Jerry includes it as part of the 3000 package. It would be worth mentioning if you order, just in case, because it is definitely, and absolutely useful and for me a a must have.
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I asked when I bought my Toro3000 and yes it is included, and yes it is basically necessary.

A note, when chosing thread colours, the "natural" that Artisan sells looks white so don't get fooled by the "natural" label. I have a whole spool that'll never get used because it's so bright.
 
Gentlemen:

Fascinating thread! I make my own sheaths, but have never tried anything as nice looking as thoes pictured above. I hand sew all my sheaths, which are made of harness leather for the working knives that I make.

You may see some knives I made by looking for me as "T F Harris" on Bernard Levine's Forum. My son posted some pictures of 3 that he carried in Afghanistan.
 
Check my web page and see what the Cobra 4 has done.

http://www.peterscustomleather.com/pastproj.html

I just can't imagine how many hours of hand sewing it would take to do these things! I don't ever wanna know! ha ha

Mine is not the Giant 4-25.... it's the smaller one with the 16 1/2" arm which is more than enough for anything IMHO.

Cost with the EPS and shipping was about $3,000 and in my opinion, well worth it. The SERVICE you get from Steve at leather machine Co is worth the $3000!! If you have any issue or question or whatever, he's there to help.
 
Whiskey River said:
Check my web page and see what the Cobra 4 has done.

http://www.peterscustomleather.com/pastproj.html

I just can't imagine how many hours of hand sewing it would take to do these things! I don't ever wanna know! ha ha

Mine is not the Giant 4-25.... it's the smaller one with the 16 1/2" arm which is more than enough for anything IMHO.

Cost with the EPS and shipping was about $3,000 and in my opinion, well worth it. The SERVICE you get from Steve at leather machine Co is worth the $3000!! If you have any issue or question or whatever, he's there to help.
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I just checked it out on their website and I think I'm in love! That machine looks and sounds awesome! Am sewing by hand right now and using Bardours 6 strand Linen thread. What thread do you like to use with your Cobra 4?
 
wildmanh said:
I just checked it out on their website and I think I'm in love! That machine looks and sounds awesome! Am sewing by hand right now and using Bardours 6 strand Linen thread. What thread do you like to use with your Cobra 4?
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Yes it's a great machine! The EPS is super nice too. I always have it stop with the needle down, which will keep the item from moving. You can turn it piece to start stitching in another direction, adjust it's positioning or whatever. It's super handy!

I use Bonded Nylon thread, sizes 277 (top side) and 207 (bobbin). Good stuff!
 
Whiskey River said:
Check my web page and see what the Cobra 4 has done.

http://www.peterscustomleather.com/pastproj.html

I just can't imagine how many hours of hand sewing it would take to do these things! I don't ever wanna know! ha ha

Mine is not the Giant 4-25.... it's the smaller one with the 16 1/2" arm which is more than enough for anything IMHO.

Cost with the EPS and shipping was about $3,000 and in my opinion, well worth it. The SERVICE you get from Steve at leather machine Co is worth the $3000!! If you have any issue or question or whatever, he's there to help.
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Jon, if budget is a consideration then the 9" Artisan Toro 3000 still has the edge at advertised price of $1795 with complete accessory package. I've done a little research to understand the EPS and my statement in the previous thread concerning EPS still stands. For example, you always want the needle to stop full down when turning a corner, but you want it to stop full up to remove a completed job. With EPS you have to adjust position one way or the other on a pre set EPS, making one of the operations the old tried and true "hand" needle re-postioning and that's just one example. Having operated a machine for many years, I just don't see "great" advantage or much of any advantage at all of EPS and the extra cost involved.

You are correct, Steve is one of the good guys and his customer service is absolutely great. The EXACT same thing can be said of Jerry Zonis and Dave Speigel of Aritisan and in fact the way I judged Steve's customer service is from when he WAS at Artisan.

Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
Jon, if budget is a consideration then the 9" Artisan Toro 3000 still has the edge at advertised price of $1795 with complete accessory package. I've done a little research to understand the EPS and my statement in the previous thread concerning EPS still stands. For example, you always want the needle to stop full down when turning a corner, but you want it to stop full up to remove a completed job. With EPS you have to adjust position one way or the other on a pre set EPS, making one of the operations the old tried and true "hand" needle re-postioning and that's just one example. Having operated a machine for many years, I just don't see "great" advantage or much of any advantage at all of EPS and the extra cost involved.

You are correct, Steve is one of the good guys and his customer service is absolutely great. The EXACT same thing can be said of Jerry Zonis and Dave Speigel of Aritisan and in fact the way I judged Steve's customer service is from when he WAS at Artisan.

Paul
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Good morning Paul and Happy Thanksgiving!

I agree 100% that if price is an issue, and it usually is.... the $1795 machine is the way to go!

EPS is great! You have it a little confused though. You never have to touch the hand wheel. Really the only time I use the hand wheel is for my beginning stitch, to put the needle exactly where I want it to start. Once you reach the end of your stitching, you touch the peddle in a differant position which will end the thing Needle UP. I also agree that with years of experience, it might not seem a big deal, but I really like never having to reach to the wheel to do it by hand.... it's a reach and a heavy wheel! EPS is great and if one can afford it, I think it's well worth it!

Just my 2 cents.
 
Happy Thanksgiving to all you guys.After today could we continue this discussion and talk about thread sizes,and stitches per inch? This thread has been a blessing for me. Trav
 
Travis E. Daniel said:
Happy Thanksgiving to all you guys.After today could we continue this discussion and talk about thread sizes,and stitches per inch? This thread has been a blessing for me. Trav
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Sure! I like 277 for anything like holsters/sheaths that are medium weight. You can even go heavier, but 277 is really plenty for any holster or sheath IMHO.

I use 6-7 stitches per inch.
 
Whiskey River, I noticed in your post above that you have one size on the top and a different size on the bottom. Why is this necessary? Trav
 
Travis E. Daniel said:
Whiskey River, I noticed in your post above that you have one size on the top and a different size on the bottom. Why is this necessary? Trav
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It's not needed but that just what many people do. I have sewn with 277 top and bottom. The lighter thread on the bobbin maybe pulls up tighter, I'm not sure. Either way seems to look very similar.
 
I use 207/207 for sheaths and for holsters I would opt for the 277/277 as does Jon. I have used one weight lighter for the bobbin, on occasion, but do not see any particular advantage in looks or strength. One factor might be that the lighter thread will lay slightly flatter on the back side where it does not have the benefit of a groove, but my machine is adjusted so that it pulls the bobbin up tight into the middle so it's a non factor for me.

Bonded Poly or Bonded Nylon are both good for me. I rarely use white thread, selecting more of a khaki color which sews in MUCH lighter than it shows on the spool, then, of course i use black and dark brown threads as well.

All of my inlay work and belt edges etc. are done with 69/69 thread in the same blend and colors as the heavier threads. Done on the flat bed machine

Paul
 
Whiskey River and Paul ,Thanks for this.That would get me going without having to wonder if i had made the right choice.I can always experiment with other sizes later. Trav
 
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this great thread. I talked to Jerry Zonis at Artisan today and ordered a Toro 3000. I can't claim to have been surprised since Paul has spoken so highly of him, but have to say he was extremely helpful and generous with his time. Maybe too helpful and generous since orders are for delivery in January at the moment.

He mentioned that triangular point needles last longer than spear points and that there was a slight difference in how the stitches lie because of the shape of the holes. I think he said the stitches with triangular needles tend to lie not quite as straight but there was more to it than that. If it's not off topic could someone please elaborate on this?

Dave
 
Dave, i apologize for making you spend all that money. When I started this thread, it open up quite a few questions. I am close to ordering my 3000 also. Congratulations on your purchase. Paul and Steve have been very helpful to me. Trav
 
LOL. No worries Travis. When I've got my head on straight I don't need to look past my nose to find someone to blame. I do credit Paul's work and generous spirit for my interest in leather work in spite of a serious lack of aptitude on my part. Hopefully sheer stubbornness will tell in the long run.
 
Congratulations Dave!

I had to look up the EPS system as I didn't understand it. In case anyone is interested here's a demo.

[youtube]jijv9QmTZ9w[/youtube]

If it works for someone else that's great but I have to say that I rarely need to put my hand on the wheel except to line up that first stitch. With the Toro's servo motor on the slow setting there is so much control that I can stop it wherever I want, up or down.
Perhaps if you sat at the machine for 8 hours a day everyday I could understand it being useful.
 
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