Shirogorov ..Good,Bad & the ugly. Need to know

I appreciate quality items, but as others have said the law of diminishing returns comes into play in everything. It is a very personal thing to determine if another $200 to $600 over a CRK is worth it depending on the Shiro model you choose. I do think I'd try a Neon Lite for the money over a CRK just to see what they are all about. You'll get your money back if you determine it isn't worth it to you. It doesn't seem like a big risk if you are sure you get a genuine one.
 
I have a Tabargan or however you spell their take on the Axis lock and a Neon Lite.

Shiros are to the modern day flippers and niche openers what CRK is to frame and liner locks - they're the best production version of a flipper. So good that they easily beat out many custom makers' quality of their action/smoothness/tolerances. The Tabargan isn't worth the price I paid at all, except the steel they used is very uncommon, so it works out for me(I'm a steel and lock type guy). My HK Axis has the same action, if not better.

On the other hand, the Neon is literally if CRK made a flipper and took into account all modern advances. Darn thing is flawless. I'd expect to pay several times more just to start getting a product noticeably better.

I don't like the perceived elitism around the brand, but that's to be expected when the asking price is around a grand brand new. I do like how subtle the Shiro looks for it's price - it's like Mercedes used to be, if you saw the logo you knew what it was and how much it was. Otherwise it just blends in to the crowd. People see the finish on a Rockstead and immediately assume I sold a kidney for the knife.

All that said, I wouldn't recommend someone get one until they've tried out quite a few knives and have been in the knife game long enough to know they're a serious collector. Much of what the Shiro is praised for can be found only slightly diluted in models $600-700 less. And it's much easier to screw up the edge, ruin through disassembly or just losing a $200 knife than it is a $950 knife. Also, if you don't see the value in a CRK over a PM2 or ZT-whatever, you likely won't see the value in a Shiro over any $300-400 midtech.
 
JenWrath said:
I have a Tabargan or however you spell their take on the Axis lock and a Neon Lite.

Shiros are to the modern day flippers and niche openers what CRK is to frame and liner locks - they're the best production version of a flipper. So good that they easily beat out many custom makers' quality of their action/smoothness/tolerances. The Tabargan isn't worth the price I paid at all, except the steel they used is very uncommon, so it works out for me(I'm a steel and lock type guy). My HK Axis has the same action, if not better.

On the other hand, the Neon is literally if CRK made a flipper and took into account all modern advances. Darn thing is flawless. I'd expect to pay several times more just to start getting a product noticeably better.

I don't like the perceived elitism around the brand, but that's to be expected when the asking price is around a grand brand new. I do like how subtle the Shiro looks for it's price - it's like Mercedes used to be, if you saw the logo you knew what it was and how much it was. Otherwise it just blends in to the crowd. People see the finish on a Rockstead and immediately assume I sold a kidney for the knife.

All that said, I wouldn't recommend someone get one until they've tried out quite a few knives and have been in the knife game long enough to know they're a serious collector. Much of what the Shiro is praised for can be found only slightly diluted in models $600-700 less. And it's much easier to screw up the edge, ruin through disassembly or just losing a $200 knife than it is a $950 knife. Also, if you don't see the value in a CRK over a PM2 or ZT-whatever, you likely won't see the value in a Shiro over any $300-400 midtech.
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Correction: Shirogorov is the best production flipper you know of. Gotta add that disclaimer, ultimatums stated as fact are never accurate.

Also, CRK may have the original RIL, but it is nowhere near the best. The design has been improved by numerous other knife brands and models. I just checked the CRK website, they still use the pure titanium cutout. As with any technology, the first is never the best. Just look at the world's first transistor from Bell Labs....first anything really.

Superior frames locks include hardened contact faces/inserts, as well as dual-sided overtravel stops (one to prevent the user from bending the framelock outwards (common, CRK clip does this to a weak extent), and one to prevent the lock from being engaged too far (uncommon).

Barring those corrections, very interesting and detailed insight on Shirogorov. I am not sold on that brand quite yet since I think they are overhyped, but I am keeping my mind open to anything that might disprove this.
 
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Cutlover said:
Superior frames locks include hardened contact faces/inserts, as well as dual-sided overtravel stops (one to prevent the user from bending the framelock outwards (common, CRK clip does this to a weak extent), and one to prevent the lock from being engaged too far (uncommon).
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My favorite RIL improvement is using a ceramic ball as the interface. I've only seen CRK do this as of yet.

Over travel stops aren't necessary, especially on the inner direction. The other scale is the inner travel stop ;)
 
Josh K said:
My favorite RIL improvement is using a ceramic ball as the interface. I've only seen CRK do this as of yet.

Over travel stops aren't necessary, especially on the inner direction. The other scale is the inner travel stop ;)
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I originally thought the overtravel stop in both directions would contribute to greater longevity due to more consistent lockup. But hey, I guess if it locks up and has no blade play, then improvements be damned.

Also, could you point me to the CRK model with a ceramic interface? I don't think I have encountered this, sounds interesting (unless you are referring to the Hoback rolling detent).
 
Cutlover said:
I originally thought the overtravel stop in both directions would contribute to greater longevity due to more consistent lockup. But hey, I guess if it locks up and has no blade play, then improvements be damned.
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I think outward direction is fine, and the Umnumzaan has this. I just don't think it's necessary. Overtravel inwards sounds a bit strange, the lockbar wears inwards so it's to prevent that adjustment from happening past a certain point?

Cutlover said:
Also, could you point me to the CRK model with a ceramic interface? I don't think I have encountered this, sounds interesting (unless you are referring to the Hoback rolling detent).
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Inkosi, Sebenza 25 (disco), and Umnumzaan (originally came out on this knife) all use a ceramic ball as the interface between the lockbar and the blade tang. Zero stickiness (another thing that doesn't bother me..), and it's practically indestructible. Think of it as a better steel insert.

CRK0105-SC085-9.jpg
 
Mick_1KRR said:
I've handled, dismantled and inspected every structural part of a shiro. Are they nice knives - yes, very nice with great F&F and good steel. Are they worth the price in what the hype suggests - i'd have to say no. I'm nit picking here but hey, this is a knife asking for close to a thousand dollars of your hard earned, so why can't i?

Start with the pivot screw threads, definitely could be done better, the threads are large and the pivot screw length is short, takes only a few rotations until it's loose as a goose. It should've had finer threads to make adjustments more precise which also aids in stopping the pivot loosening without loctite.

The lock bar engagement could also be done better, there is a step from where the steel lock bar insert rests against the Ti lock bar, meaning if the lock bar insert ever travels across the tang with wear over time it can't adjust. The blade tang will hit the stepped part of the lock bar frame and the lock bar can no longer move across and adjust stopping the lock rock that (might) ever come.

The bearings and housing, seriously? pack about a million tiny ball bearings the size of grains of sand into a swirly pattern? some might like it but i hope you enjoy trying to maintain them during removals. Just not practical, i could dismantle, clean and lube 5 Sebenzas in the time it takes to properly do one shiro.

That's my nit pick, but these knives demand high prices, so for that price i personally need those boxes ticked. Just my opinion. With knives there just becomes a point in the quality department where you don't get any more for your dollars.
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Thanks for actually supplying great examples of why you think it’s not worth the price. As someone who is currently looking, my eyes were starting to bleed from reading these posts that don’t tell you truly anything.
 
If
SoCalEDC said:
Not being a Shiro owner, this might upset some here.
I was at a local B&M knife shop here in the Los Angeles area and they had several Shiros under the case. I wanted to spark my curiosity about a $900 flipper so I asked to see one.
I wasn't overly impressed so I asked to see a second one (orange scales). Same flipping action.
I then flipped the ZT 0450, 0452 series and was blown away by how much better the action on these were.
Maybe I got two Shiro lemons by chance but, you wanted the ugly so that's my assessment. My knife buddy who was with me thought the same thing.
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If they were both brand new and not broken in yet then Yes the action could be questionable. I have owned multiple Shiros, Rask, Norseman and now Servo and Shirogorov knives will always be in my top 3 Favorites .
 
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Shiros are very nice knives, smooth,good looking, fantastic engineering and tolerances with great blade steels.That's good for me.
The bad, well start with the pricing, warranty and customer service, bearings,steel insert and those pivot screw heads.My 2 cents.
 
I have a neon and an F95R, the knives I would compare them to in terms of function, beauty, and price would be Thorburn. Although the Thorburn’s are custom the prices are similar and same thing with warranty having to send them out (Africa), however there is a shop in Washington state which is authorized to work on Thorburn’s if I’m not mistaken. Just to throw another name in the hat :) all of these knives are worth their price if they make you smile. Both my L51 and L51 compact are equal to if not better than any knife I’ve owned Shiro included... my 2 cents.

I’ll probably post a review comparing the neon to the compact just because they both have their highs and lows. Biggest difference in favor of the shiro is functionality of the pocket clip, biggest in favor of the L51 compact is the detent. Both are silky, and I mean silky.
 
I know I'm resurrecting a somewhat older thread, but having focused mostly on sub-$200 knives and a few CRKs (which definitely are not), I decided to pick up a Shirogorov Neon Ultra Lite (as Recon 1 had a few in stock). I really didn't expect to be as nice as it is, but it really exceeded my expectations. The fit and finish is really something else, and the lock-up is very solid. The thing I keep thinking of is that in feel and design, it's like a sports car, whereas the CRK (and my Hinderer XM-18) feel like SUVs in comparison. All incredibly well put together, but this is just so sleek.
 
DC Kestrel said:
I know I'm resurrecting a somewhat older thread, but having focused mostly on sub-$200 knives and a few CRKs (which definitely are not), I decided to pick up a Shirogorov Neon Ultra Lite (as Recon 1 had a few in stock). I really didn't expect to be as nice as it is, but it really exceeded my expectations. The fit and finish is really something else, and the lock-up is very solid. The thing I keep thinking of is that in feel and design, it's like a sports car, whereas the CRK (and my Hinderer XM-18) feel like SUVs in comparison. All incredibly well put together, but this is just so sleek.
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I can agree with everything you said. I just got a HatiOn Lite, very similar to your knife. Aside from the free-spinning pivot, a little lock stick, and a handle that’s maybe slightly shorter than my ideal, I can’t find anything I would change if I could.

That’s not to say it’s clearly my favorite. Having just gotten it, I have to see in use how it compares to the Koenig Arius, Holt Specter, and Sander Barbus, all outstanding in their own right though bigger. But the HatiOn is really impressive in design, and in quality I expect it holds its own against much more expensive knives.
 
silverds said:
You don't buy a Shirogorov to compare it to other knives. You buy it to own one of the finest production knives in the industry.
You don't buy a Shirogorov for exceptional warranty service. You buy it because many are afraid to.
You don't buy a Shirogorov for cutting cardboard. You buy it to cut the shit.
You don't buy a Shirogorov for value. You buy it to experience a little opulence.

(I haz eet)...
opulence-i-haz-it.png



Finally, you don't buy a Shirogorov for a secret password to an underground Speakeasy run by the Russian Mafia. (I'm still waiting)...

You buy it to share your own pics and post your smug opinion in Shirogorov threads with certified authenticity.

38004356861_78b367c5ab_k.jpg
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Completely agree! And nice Walther btw...
 
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