Side to side play is ACCEPTABLE In a Chris Reeve Knife Art Carbon Fiber Sebenza?!

[Initialconditions]

Still trying to get my head around a phone conversation I had with the service department at CRK yesterday.

Had to send a small sebenza 31 BACK to them because it came home from spa with side to side play. Their service department called me, acknowledged the play, but said "some play is acceptable in our carbon fiber front sebenza's because CF is softer than titanium."

Simply put, hearing that directly from CRK opens up some questions:

1. Why the hell are they making a knife in a materia that doesn't confirm to their own standards? (This one is purely hypothetical, no response needed)
2. If it is accurate that the KA models can have play, is it mentioned anywhere? (Either KA or CRK'w website)?
3. Do any of you guys have experience with side to side play in KA sebenza's... IE is it a common thing? (I've never heard of it, but maybe I missed the memo)

Now, I'm NOT looking for opinions in the responses; I think they degrade the conversation. IE "I think you're holding it wrong. Or "I think CRK sucks." Or "CRK is God and you're just making this up."

What I am hoping is that people have experience with CRK explicitly saying something different than what they told me, or perhaps even a legit course of action like "here's how to contact Tim..." or maybe even evidence from this or other forums that this difference in tolerance exists between the KA stuff and CRK's other models and is generally known and accepted as a thing.

Thanks in advance for whatever insight you provide

 

[BTTLBRN]

Is this blade play when locked open, or when the pressure is taken off the lockbar and the blade can move freely side to side (not up and down)?

I don't have any experience with a CF CRK, I'm just curious I suppose as to when it is occurring.

I DID have a self-imposed issue with blade play many moons ago when I didn't have the bushing installed quite right on a Large 21 - totally my fault, but I highly doubt that is the problem here as it came from their shop to you like this?

 

[JohnnyGalt]

I have multiple CF knives from other manufacturers that don’t exhibit the type of play that you describe. I can’t imagine such play is “normal” for a Sebenza. Surprised you had CRK customer service describe the play as “normal”.

 

[Initialconditions]

Is this blade play when locked open, or when the pressure is taken off the lockbar and the blade can move freely side to side (not up and down)?

I don't have any experience with a CF CRK, I'm just curious I suppose as to when it is occurring.

I DID have a self-imposed issue with blade play many moons ago when I didn't have the bushing installed quite right on a Large 21 - totally my fault, but I highly doubt that is the problem here as it came from their shop to you like this?

Thanks for the clarification question. The side to side play occurs when taking pressure off the lockbar in the open position. It's how I test all my knives; taking the process directly from the CRK instructional video on YouTube. It arrived like that back from spa. In fact I was told not to attempt to tune it out, but rather to send it right back to CRK so they could work back in their process to see how the play was introduced.

 

[Initialconditions]

I have multiple CF knives from other manufacturers that don’t exhibit the type of play that you describe. I can’t imagine such play is “normal” for a Sebenza. Surprised you had CRK customer service describe the play as “normal”.

Surprised puts my reaction mildly. The CRK rep thought the call disconnected; I was flat out speechless for a good while. My brain was trying to process what I'd just heard from who said it and I just kept getting "does not compute"

 

[BTTLBRN]

Thanks for the clarification question. The side to side play occurs when taking pressure off the lockbar in the open position. It's how I test all my knives; taking the process directly from the CRK instructional video on YouTube. It arrived like that back from spa. In fact I was told not to attempt to tune it out, but rather to send it right back to CRK so they could work back in their process to see how the play was introduced.

Ok, that's when I figured you noticed it. Hmmm, as much as it might be a pain to do so; I think I would take CRK at their word and send it back to them.

 

[Initialconditions]

Ok, that's when I figured you noticed it. Hmmm, as much as it might be a pain to do so; I think I would take CRK at their word and send it back to them.

It's already back with them. They called me to explain they'd do what that could, but some play was "acceptable" in the cf models. That's the reason behind this post.

 

[Kettleman]

I’ve only owned one CF CRK. A large inkosi. I didn’t own it long but I assure you there was no side to side blade play locked or un locked.

 

[J. Doyle]

I don't know why there is play, and there probably shouldn't be.

But the reason they gave you is BS if I'm reading it correctly. The hardness of titanium vs carbon fiber is probably negligible and doesn't relate to blade play at all.

There are TONS of carbon fiber, g-10 and micarta scale knives with zero side to side play.

 

[Initialconditions]

I don't know why there is play, and there probably shouldn't be.

But the reason they gave you is BS if I'm reading it correctly. The hardness of titanium vs carbon fiber is probably negligible and doesn't relate to blade play at all.

There are TONS of carbon fiber, g-10 and micarta scale knives with zero side to side play.

To be frank, it absolutely doesn't pass the smell test to me. Either the service rep is just kinda winging it (to the detriment of the company), or he's being directed to say some bunk stuff because someone doesn't feel like having to deal with it (also to the detriment of the company, but this would be symptomatic of a far bigger, systemic problem). I hope it's the former, but either way, as a consumer and big-time CRK user, this goes a long way to breaking confidence in a company who's prices are SOLELY justified by producing superior knives that can be consistently maintained as such.

 

[Initialconditions]

Just emailed this to CRK. The more I think about it, the less I like the response I received yesterday. (I and I hated it yesterday...)
---
Thinking through our conversation yesterday has made me increasingly uncomfortable with the results. I absolutely don't think the owner/consumer should have to choose between side-to-side play or stiffness in one of your knives. Please escalate this issue as needed to help, either alert other potential owners that this is a known, and accepted, issue with this model, or provide solutions to get this model up to the standards of the rest of the sebenza's (and frankly, other knives built with carbon fiber scales that manage to do so without play and without being overly stiff).

I'm really hoping there was simply an internal miscommunication and that my knife will return home with the smooth action as is present on all my other small 31's, while also have zero blade play like the rest of my CRK knives.

I appreciate in advance the extra time and effort to ensure this knife (and all other CF front sebenza's) meet the quality and service standards your company is known for.
---

 

[NG VI]

I don't know why there is play, and there probably shouldn't be.

But the reason they gave you is BS if I'm reading it correctly. The hardness of titanium vs carbon fiber is probably negligible and doesn't relate to blade play at all.

There are TONS of carbon fiber, g-10 and micarta scale knives with zero side to side play.

Yep, sometimes working with a new material can be challenging for a manufacturer, like when Real Steel did the almost entirely micarta mini Metamorphs for an Indiana Knife shop, and they were a little finicky. Mine had lock stick and the micarta backspacer liked to try to walk out of position, out of flush with the scales, but those quirks did settle down as it broke in and it seems Real Steel isn't scared of micarta anymore, overall I wouldn't call that a problem. Blaming carbon fiber for blade play is absurd.

 

[MrStabby7]

My Sebenzas have a very very very slight amount of side to side play when holding the lockbar open. From the factory they come rock solid but after some pocket time it loosens up creating that tiny bit of play.

With the lock bar engaged they are rock solid all around.

 

[BD_01]

No Sebenza, but a lg CF Inkosi here. Solid 360°.

I think if your issue was common, there would be threads about it.
There are several older threads about CF models going slightly off center, but I haven’t even seen that talked about for a few years.

Seems you’re in a bit of a bind. Very frustrating.
Please keep us posted on how things turn out.

 

[LostCause]

So I'm reading this thread while waiting my train to get home and making surprised faces.

I couldn't help myself, just put my phone down, pulled my Recon1 out, flicked it open and tried if it has any play - it doesn't. It's as solid as it gets.

First thing to cross my mind was "This guy got ripped off".

Sorry, but no flaws are acceptable at CRK price range. At least in my book.

 

[Initialconditions]

Toddler is being a complete nutcase this morning, so here's probably the only response I'll manage until later tonight or tomorrow.

CRK called immediately after receiving that email. I'm happy with the way the conversation went and don't want to speak for them, but I know people will be curious so here's a quick summary:

In my experience, TI sebs (both small and large) age like wine and get better with use. Apparently, per CRK, CF models have the potential to age differently and at different speeds than TI models. So, for example in small cases, CF models may begin to exhibit play with use sooner or later. CRK considers this acceptable because of the nature of the material. In my case the blade was nearly new, and has apparently been tuned to near perfection this time around. So, if that's the case, I'll be quite satisfied.

Have to go deal with crazy kid. What a day. Talk soon

 

[BTTLBRN]

So I'm reading this thread while waiting my train to get home and making surprised faces.

I couldn't help myself, just put my phone down, pulled my Recon1 out, flicked it open and tried if it has any play - it doesn't. It's as solid as it gets.

First thing to cross my mind was "This guy got ripped off".

Sorry, but no flaws are acceptable at CRK price range. At least in my book.

Sure, but read the OP’s next post; CRK’s warranty and customer service are second to none, despite what appears to be a less than satisfactory initial response. No real offense meant here but you won’t get that from Cold Steel - especially not GSM Cold Steel.

Subtle jab not so subtle.

 

[Kettleman]

So I'm reading this thread while waiting my train to get home and making surprised faces.

I couldn't help myself, just put my phone down, pulled my Recon1 out, flicked it open and tried if it has any play - it doesn't. It's as solid as it gets.

First thing to cross my mind was "This guy got ripped off".

Sorry, but no flaws are acceptable at CRK price range. At least in my book.

By this point we are all very much aware that you believe your recon 1 is the finest knife in the world and we are all so very happy for you that you found your needs fulfilled so very cheaply!

Your sample of 1 is very compelling, however I just tested the side to side play on 6 different CRK models totaling 7 knives with ages ranging from 2014-2023 and found none. Ripped of? Really? When Cold Steel hasn’t any QC issues please come back and regale us once again.

 

[brock stewart]

I have a small 21 cf and small 31 cf that are perfect I’m sure they will get it figured out for you

 

[iacchus]

I beat the everlasting snot out of a KA CF 21L for many years and never got any play whatsoever.
I guess it's still breaking in?
Maybe the 31s are different, but I cant figure why that would be.

I'm glad theyre taking care of it for you. I expect somebody at the mothership got their wires crossed on the phone the first time.