SOG and the Seki Connection

[GIRLYmann]

Had the vietnam war only just begun in these current times,
Ben baker might have gone to saikot instead...
Then sogs might have been some purrty damascus
Anyone fancies muela's buffalo?

Or some chinese sog logo infringement model?

The choices are plentiful...
But there is nothing like owning an original.

 

[KenHash]

Well....considering today's geopolitics, I doubt Ben Baker would even think of, much less get authorization to outsource
to Sialkot Pakistan or Yiangjiang China. There are some Vietnam vets who think it's pretty funny that Boker is making
"SOG" style knives in factories in Communist China. But that Chinese "SOG" infringement model is pretty cool looking..LOL
I guess it comes down to the reality that the vast vast majority of people who puchase knives have little interest beyond their
appearance, style, utility and price. Even those who will debate about "better steels" into the wee hours of the night are mostly
obliivious to the history behind them.

 

[GIRLYmann]

Ahh, but therein lies the contradiction of black bags operations,
Supplying friendlies with materials in use by opposing forces...
What better way for PLAusible deniability??!
Having said that,
collecting will be so much richer if one added the historical dimensions.
i guess, that leaves the majority with a hollow collecting tradition.
The founder of sog knives - mr frazer,
Saw the market with a historical perspective.
But one can only go so far with a niche market.

 

[KenHash]

Glad you brought that up. I've always thought that Ben Baker's design itself had contradictions.
An unidentifiable sterile combat knife.....that has a stacked leather handle and a profile that leans closest
to the Amerian "Bowie". Hmmm...while avoiding absolute proof of American presence in a legal sense,
I'm sure it didn't take Charlie very long to figure it out. One would have thought a knife based on native designs,
or at the very least French knives would have provided better diversion as to it's origin. Well, it's all history
under the bridge. As for Spencer Fraser having seen itfrom a "historical" perspective, I see it differently, He was
only 28 or so in 1984. Vietnam ended only 11 years ago. I think he just saw the originals at some gun show
and went.."Cool!!". LOL And that brings us to the real draw of the SOG knife, there is no denying that the blade shape
is both "cool" and "sexy". Even the little Seal Pup extrudes this aura that no other knife of that size has.

 

[GIRLYmann]

The police action in the nam was indeed a full blown war.
I guess it helped having bases across the pacific.
Logistics made far easier in a way.
It probably helped greatly that there were existing knife manufacturers in nearby japan.
I can't imagine having to deal with some small village smithy operation
To get the eventual work done with some uniformity in quality and more importantly
With an ability to meet sudden and unannounced delivery times.
Well, fate has it that mr baker had pictured in his mind a knife type he was familiar with.
And hence the seemingly americanised influence
Showing a 1950's type styling or flair in the form of those distinctively dramatic signature curves
Which we have come to appreciate and call the sog bowie.
So was it a weight saving measure?
Or some cleverly designed batmobile ready to shock and awe?
As for mr fraser not drawn by history,
Well, yeah and no.
Let's see now, mr frazer was into collecting original sog material
And lets hear what he says in his own words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1Vrqlnunzoc
http://www.theheraldbusinessjournal.com/article/20120411/BIZ/704119926/1050
So, yeah he was bowled over by the looks of the knife.
That soon, he was drawn to recreate a serialised boxed and numbered sog bowie
Which became sog specialties very first product.
And what a difference in business philosophy and outlook years down the road
Now that it is has an image to take care of.
I leave you with one final thought,
Which would you think should take precedent,
Branding a corporate image
Or the product itself?
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=948062975207290

http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2013/7/24/process-a-case-study-on-sog-knives-part-i.html
http://www.thedieline.com/blog/2013/8/8/process-a-case-study-on-sog-knives-part-ii.html

http://www.uniteddsn.com/sog/#sog-2

 

[KenHash]

And here's my final thought.....I think the product should take precedence.
Without the good product all the corporate image and marketing are destined to ultimate failure.
It's no secret that I am a big SOG fan, have been for a long time and will continue to be.
Profitability should always be a priority for any business, but when it takes precedence over all else
it is the beginning of the slow spiral downward. It is the strategy of a new company eager for fast
profit, not one of an established company seeking profit over the long run.
SOG still makes some good knives. But today I think they sell far too many junk knives. And people who are disappointed in them spread the word that all SOGs are junk. This only leads to one direction. Especially when carrying on a brand label war. What I as one mere individual thinks about SOG's direction is pretty insignificant. But I do hope SOG doesn't become the next Gerber.

 

[GIRLYmann]

All too true...
It is obvious that a good many marketing strategies is designed to boost sales.
And that means its aim is to penetrate and gain new markets.
This means targeting consumers new to the brand in question.
It also could as a consequence alienate its existing consumers.
Brand loyalty should be stepped up, and not diminished.
With the withdrawal of old standards
And the introduction of new ideas and products
To compliment the unexplored path
So chartered by a sales and marketing division,
Could be worth the risk to the existing status quo.
But only if the product line has had and continues to have
A rock solid reputation with its customer base.
Any advertising campaign is merely icing on the cake.
Glossing up the attractiveness is the general idea.
The true test is in the eating, so to speak.
So yeah, product quality and outstanding technical superiority
Is foremost in the minds of consumers in the know.

 

[craytab]

And here's my final thought.....I think the product should take precedence.
Without the good product all the corporate image and marketing are destined to ultimate failure.
It's no secret that I am a big SOG fan, have been for a long time and will continue to be.
Profitability should always be a priority for any business, but when it takes precedence over all else
it is the beginning of the slow spiral downward. It is the strategy of a new company eager for fast
profit, not one of an established company seeking profit over the long run.
SOG still makes some good knives. But today I think they sell far too many junk knives. And people who are disappointed in them spread the word that all SOGs are junk. This only leads to one direction. Especially when carrying on a brand label war. What I as one mere individual thinks about SOG's direction is pretty insignificant. But I do hope SOG doesn't become the next Gerber.

Very well said.

 

[Cognoscenti]

And here's my final thought.....I think the product should take precedence.
Without the good product all the corporate image and marketing are destined to ultimate failure.
It's no secret that I am a big SOG fan, have been for a long time and will continue to be.
Profitability should always be a priority for any business, but when it takes precedence over all else
it is the beginning of the slow spiral downward. It is the strategy of a new company eager for fast
profit, not one of an established company seeking profit over the long run.
SOG still makes some good knives. But today I think they sell far too many junk knives. And people who are disappointed in them spread the word that all SOGs are junk. This only leads to one direction. Especially when carrying on a brand label war. What I as one mere individual thinks about SOG's direction is pretty insignificant. But I do hope SOG doesn't become the next Gerber.

My friend...
I know its been a long time ago since your comment above.

You should see the disaster of product the SOG new owner (GSM Outdoor) (aquisition made in Dec 2021) have made....
Piss pour made in china crap : (refer to pictures)
So BADLY made that i suspect they are coming from another country like Pakistan...

Theses a BRAND NEW ones
See the black PAINT finition easily scratched
See the TREMEDOUS white spacers
See the Guard Shape
See the Blade Grind
See the OVERALL finition...............................

We sadly live in a world where craftmanship definition mean nothing anymore.
Are you still a big SOG fan ?

 

[KenHash]

My friend...
I know its been a long time ago since your comment above.

You should see the disaster of product the SOG new owner (GSM Outdoor) (aquisition made in Dec 2021) have made....
Piss pour made in china crap : (refer to pictures)
So BADLY made that i suspect they are coming from another country like Pakistan...

Theses a BRAND NEW ones
See the black PAINT finition easily scratched
See the TREMEDOUS white spacers
See the Guard Shape
See the Blade Grind
See the OVERALL finition...............................

We sadly live in a world where craftmanship definition mean nothing anymore.
Are you still a big SOG fan ?

It has been 8 years since my post to which you are responding. 3 months after I posted that I visited the G.Sakai factory in Seki and saw Tomcat 3.0, Vulcan and Vision folders being made. They were very high quality knives.

I am aware of GSM's takeover since they bought Cold Steel first. And there have been some issues there as well.
I am not a fan of any brand these days. In fact I have reached the conclusion that one can not be a fan of any big company as they produce so many models that quality may be all over the place. I now consider myself a fan of specific models, rather than companies. Today I own and occasionally carry only one SOG, a Taiwan made Seal Pup.

I'm afraid the SOG Bowie 2.0 in your photos appears to be nothing like the original SOG S1 Bowie made by Hattori in Seki.
Photo is from my own collection back then.

 

[Cognoscenti]

It has been 8 years since my post to which you are responding. 3 months after I posted that I visited the G.Sakai factory in Seki and saw Tomcat 3.0, Vulcan and Vision folders being made. They were very high quality knives.

I am aware of GSM's takeover since they bought Cold Steel first. And there have been some issues there as well.
I am not a fan of any brand these days. In fact I have reached the conclusion that one can not be a fan of any big company as they produce so many models that quality may be all over the place. I now consider myself a fan of specific models, rather than companies. Today I own and occasionally carry only one SOG, a Taiwan made Seal Pup.

I'm afraid the SOG Bowie 2.0 in your photos appears to be nothing like the original SOG S1 Bowie made by Hattori in Seki.
Photo is from my own collection back then.

You...You sold the blued S1 ?!
...I will be buried with mine thats for sure.

EDIT : I was able to find/secure one of the last Super Sog Bowie and already plan to custom the handle like this gentleman made :
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sog-super-bowie-handle-mod.1526414/

Could not resist anymore (after all theses years...) the grind line and the Ti finish look so sharp.
I was able to get it at $187 and it was the last one on seller website.

Theses start to be very difficult to find at decent price and shape.

I have a Seki SK5 Tigershark as well (probably my best one)
one of theses days i should take pictures

 

[onehikes]

Don't forget Kinryu of Seki, Japan who made the Seal Team 2000 knives from 1995-2007.

 

[KenHash]

Don't forget Kinryu of Seki, Japan who made the Seal Team 2000 knives from 1995-2007.

Thanks for reviving an old thread I started 9 years ago. lol

SOG contracted with 3 major Seki factories. Hattori made the original S1 and S2 knives. G.Sakai made all of SOG's folders.
The rest of SOG's fixed blades were made by Kinryu Corporation, a knife factory owned and run by the Suzuki family.

Kinryu was the maker of the Lakota fixed blades for Phil Hoffmaan. When that collapsed, they made his Condor Line. When that failed the Kinryu factory was left with stock and parts.
These were bought up by Blackjack, owned by Mike Stewart who had been with Pacific Cutlery (now Benchmade). When Blackjack moved back to US production, SOG contracted with Kinryu to make the Tiger Sharks, Techs, NW Ranger, Government, all the daggers and the Seal 2000 anmd Seal Pup. The SOG contract ended in 2005/2006 when it moved all production to Taiwan.

Kinryu closed their factory in 2017 as the owner faced health issues. One of the last knives I think they made was the Ciold Steel San Mai III Laredo and Natchez. They had been making the
Aus8 and VG SRKs and Recon Tantos fo Cold Steel until then. Today Kinryu is a seller of survival/outdoor gear.