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Spam e-mail from BSF

Originally posted by Spark:
No Kelly, that's where you are wrong... (snip)
Click to expand...

Well, you said I was wrong, then in the very next paragraph proved me right. Bottom line is this - Traffic at the other forums went up, while traffic at BF went down - all as a result of the For Sale forums closing. 'Nuff said.

Second, if it wasn't for the unbelievable amount of complaining over a piddly fee and minor format nits, I have every confidence that the classifieds would have worked. But, you can't make everyone happy, and the overall effect here was that you had a few people making enough noise about it that it had problems.
Click to expand...

You can spin the issue all you want, but the reason that the classifieds had problems had NOTHING to do with those of us who complained about it. It had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that buyers and sellers DIDN'T LIKE THEM. Period.

Others have been less than honest in what they've done - the calls for "Boycot BladeForums.com!" is one example.
Click to expand...

In my discussions with many forumites, I have yet to hear the first call for boycotting BladeForums. I still post here as much as I always have. I bought a half-dozen or so classifieds. If traffic decreased, it was because you were not meeting the needs of those people you were trying to attract.

Then coming in with BuySharp was a nice "hamstring" move.
Click to expand...

Patrick (and whoever else is involved in that venture) saw a need that wasn't being met. He started a site to meet those needs. Simple. Nothing underhanded about that. What's different about that and you and Mike starting BladeForums when KFC already existed? You guys saw a need, met it, and are now more successful than the other sites. Great. Good job. Don't expect that people will just bow down in your presence though. You've got to work even harder to stay on top.

Regarding the revenue stream comments, no, $1.49 wouldn't have paid all of the bills, but it would have helped, as will the auctions.
Click to expand...

You spent (and correct me if I'm wrong) about $30K for the classified and auction software, right? You still didn't have enough individual posts in the F/S forums to break even on the software for a few years, much less begin to start providing a revenue stream to help with operation expenses. It looks like all you did was dig yourself a deeper hole.

Look, I'm the last one that wants BF to close. I've learned more here in the last 20 months than I could've learned in a lifetime before the forums. But if you guys do things like promise to never compete with other dealers, then turn around and open 1SKS; invite dealers to post (for free) their item for sale, then turn around and call them blood-suckers and leeches for doing exactly that; and ask for forumites opinions on how to raise revenue while secretly purchasing and testing classified/auction software (was that "out in the open?"), then expect me and others to call you on it.

------------------
Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
I guess I'll have to spell everything out.

Yes, Kelly, for sale posts did go up at KnifeForums.com. However, it was not a linear relationship - otherwise the number of for sale posts over there would equal the number that would have been posted over here. That would prove your point quite readily. Unfortunately, the facts don't bear your point out.

Hell, we opened the For Sale forums back up about 3 hours ago now, and we already have 27 new for sale threads, compared to the 21 that KnifeForums.com has from all day! By the end of the night, we'll probably have another 25 or so. So, please, explain to me how everyone fled over there - the stats don't bear that out.

Second - Just because you didn't get the emails, Kelly, doesn't mean the "Boycott BladeForums.com!" move wasn't out there. I got quite a few of them forwarded to me. That was a chicken**** move on someone's part - I won't name names. But, for those of you reading, I know who you are. My goodwill to you has ended - I'm not going to help you while you stab me in the back.

Third - I'm not going to argue about "spinning" or the truth on this with you, because quite frankly, you don't have the full picture. You can't nail the classifieds not working down to any single facet, it's a multi-faceted problem. Cost was a significant one, witness the number of trades and wanteds that went up as soon as those sections were made free.

Some people didn't like the format, but then, people didn't like the UBB format when it first came out. We worked hand in hand with the InfoPop people to change it for the better.

But the endless mantra of "The Classifieds Suck!" certainly doesn't encourage more people to check them out.

Regardless, the major factor was cost. Period. People don't like having to pay.

Regarding whether what BuySharp did was underhanded, c'mon Kelly, that's a bogus arguement. Sure, they saw a vacancy that we created - and at the same time saw an opportunity to slit our throats with the Classifieds. So, screw it, why should I make his job any easier? Opening the for sale forums again isn't that hard for us and the Classifieds only cost $1K - it was the auctions that cost the most money. It's worth it to me just to not have to deal with some of the complaints.

Comparing BuySharp to BladeForums.com starting from KFC is bogus as well. Earl Stewart screwed me out of over $60,000 in labor for all of the work I did building KFC to what it was. When he thought he was secure, he found that after the hard work was done, he had plenty of volunteers to come in and take my place. So, he told me to "put in my resignation" - then he slandered / libeled me, as did Kevin McClung and some of Earl's other cronies, because he thought that he could reap all the rewards.

So, I left and created BladeForums.com, and teamed up with Mike when it looked like we were thinking in the same direction. Several of the key moderators left because they knew what happened, and since then I've done my best to make this the place to go for knife information on the Internet. You'll notice that I've lived up to my word - I swore that I'd never post on KnifeForums.com again, and I haven't since the day I left. And guess what? Even with new management, it still hasn't recovered, probably because we're over here providing a better service. Instead of just mouthing the words, we're actively working to better the knife community. That's why less than 1 year after we opened, we had more members than KnifeForums.com. That's why less than 2 years after we opened (20 months), we're twice the size they are - count the members. That's why we get about 5 times the traffic they do, and why we have more manufacturers, and why there's more breaking news here - because we work hard at making the members comfortable and providing a friendly community for them to use. The fact that so many have come is a testiment to the job that we have done - and I couldn't have done it without active cooperation of the team we have here.

This new situation is completely different - BuySharp saw a way to come in and take the fruits of our labor (namely our recouping a small fee for sale's transactions) away by opening a "free" for sale site. They chose to promote their new site on several others (ours included) under the guise of "bettering the community" while taking direct shots at us - How dare we get anything out of our hard work! We must be after their first born! We had it coming!

Finally, regarding 1SKS. Kelly, I'll say it again: 1SKS was opened because we didn't have any other choice. You can either take that at face value, or don't believe it, I don't give a crap. We had to do something to ensure a steady income for us - when you are ready to go without a paycheck for your work, you can lecture me on how we could have done it better. But until you've done something like this, you'll pardon me if I think that not only are you rude for suggesting that we go without for the sake of those who don't contribute, but extremely hypocritical of you to not practice what you preach.

Sure, we had to go back on our word, and that's something I deeply regret, but you'll notice that we still allow the other advertising dealers here, etc. If we wanted to go full bore, we'd submarine all of the other dealers and keep all the money for ourselves - no banner ads, no dealer posts, no nothing. We don't do that because that's not good for the community.

Like it or not, things change. The price of gas goes up, as does food and housing - and we can't afford to foot the bills for everyone else to make a living for free. If you can, be my guest.

In the mean time, feel free to walk a mile in my shoes before you get holier than thou with me. This site costs $1500 a month just in hosting fee's. Add in software and labor and everything else, and it's quite a pretty penny.

You willing to sign over your paycheck to me each month so that I can chat up knives without giving anything back?

So, until then, you'll have to excuse me if Mike and I do something to put food on our tables and a roof over our heads. 1SKS is a pretty good way to do that - and there's plenty of room for competition. We don't have the lowest prices out there, nor do we chase after all of the customers, nor do we do any of 100 other things that would hurt the other dealers and fatten our wallets, because we are looking towards the long term. Believe me, Mike has plans in the works where hopefully, we'll be able to sell off 1SKS (or close it down) if everything pans out.

BuySharp is welcome to stay open, I'm all for it. Best of luck to them. But please don't expect me to fall for the "It's for the community!" line and recognize what I'm seeing for what it is.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 06-28-2000).]
 
I NEVER SAID THAT THE NUMBER OF POSTS AT KFC INCREASED THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT THAT THE POSTS AT BF DECREASED! Got it? However, it's clear that the sole reason for the increase in posts at KFC (and the opening of BSF) were due to the new classified system being implimented here. It's also clear to me that the reason the F/S forums were re-opened was due to increased competition for that segment of the market. I happen to think that was a smart business decision on your part.

BuySharp saw a way to come in and take the fruits of our labor (namely our recouping a small fee for sale's transactions) away by opening a "free" for sale site. They chose to promote their new site on several others (ours included) under the guise of "bettering the community" while taking direct shots at us - How dare we get anything out of our hard work! We must be after their first born! We had it coming!
Click to expand...

That's exactly the same thing you did when you left KFC. You felt you got the shaft, and felt that there was a better way to run a forum. You uhhh, "told it like it was" about Earl (rightfully IMO - remember, I supported you in opening up BF) in the chat room. You then opened up BF with Mike and took quite a few moderators with you. Fine, I've got no problem with that. You saw a chance when KFC was down to start your own venture and capture a large segment of their audience. Patrick did the same thing. I hate to tell you this, but trying to take advantage of a competitors missteps is the American Way.

As for walking a mile... I got married and had kids when I was 19 years old and making $2.50 per hour. In 1987, the first year we were married, our combined income was $7700. That doesn't go too far with three mouths to feed. Last year, my wife quit her full-time job in order to home school my kids. I know what it's like to "put food on our tables and a roof over our heads." Sorry buddy, but you have no room to lecture me there.

------------------
Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
Good, so you know what I'm talking about - sometimes you have to do things to keep yourself and your family fed. You don't like having to do it, but you have to do it none the less - opening 1SKS is an example of that. It was something we had to do.

Now, when I opened BFC, we ran the big risk of people being happy with where they were and not wanting to switch. That's fine - I was willing to take those odds because I knew I could do a better job. We weren't offering anything new, we weren't offering anything particularly different, we just offered a better service. You'll also notice that we went through holy hell over there, etc. It wasn't something I'd care to repeat, nor would I care for anyone else to go through it.

This isn't the same set of circumstances. BuySharp didn't open for any other reason than to try to submarine our Classifieds Section - and they capitalized on it specifically. They made a point of it. No discussion, no information, just taking away our sales and removing one of the ways for this site to pay for itself under the guise of "building the community". Heck, I don't have as much of an issue about their opening, as I do the way that they promoted it by denigrating us. That, IMHO, was uncool.

So, Best of Luck to BuySharpForums - there's more than enough room out there for everyone. In the end, everyone get's what's coming to them.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I dunno. There have been places to post free classified ads since the beginning of the net. Now there's one more?

I've been promoting all the knife forums on all the other knife forums all the time ... most of us belong to most if not all of them, and refer people to the others, post links....

I think if I wanted to sell a knife (sell one of my knives??? Ackkkkkk!) I would pay the buck to post an ad here, and I would post it everywhere else too.

I think if someone were to post asking where he could post a classified ad I would answer listing all the places I know of. Why not?

There still seems to be a mailspam issue (please pardon me if that's the only real issue I can see here ... maybe I'm just nearsighted).... David1967 -- one of the people who posted complaints about the spam -- is going to be removed from the list; an address has been posted that others who don't want to be spammed can email to ... is BSF acting any differently than any other mailspammer? A way to get removed from the spamming list is not good enough. Don't spam in the first place.

-Cougar :{)
 
whoa, whoa, whoa ! sell 1sks ? Please put me down as 1st on the list when that happens.

Guys, you really should understand something. If Mike & Spark were truly as underhanded as some suspect, why wouldn't they start up the new forum themselves, competing against themselves under false names, bad mouthing themselves, etc. both to get the malcontented out of BF, and pick up a few extra bucks from banner ads at the new forum as well. Chaos brings traffic, and traffic brings money. Hell, how do you guys know that I am not Mike, or Spark, or the real guy that has been controlling this whole thing,etc. On the other hand, Mike & Spark, how do you know that I am not the one at the base of responsibility for all of this uproar.

Bottom line is that they tried something that turned out to be largely unpopular, tried to defend it for awhile, then turned back and are presently regrouping with new ways to support WOW inc.

------------------
Visit john@cumberlandknives.com

<A HREF="http://www.cumberland-knives.com" TARGET=_blank>www.cumberland-knives.com
</A>
for all your knife needs.
 
I hate to further this, since I'm fairly new to BF and don't really know the players. However, there are a few things I would like to say; the first is that I don't personally know the guys who run this forum. I've learned more about knives from this forum in the last 6 mos. than I did, on my own , in the last 50 yrs.Being retired, I cruise the forums all hours of the day and night and did notice in the last month, or so, a number of people critizing 1SKS. What I thought was strange about those posts was that they made the comments, but didn't get specific about the reason for the comments. If I thought a dealer had really shafted me, I would have told the world every little detail and tried to put it to him. Maybe these posters didn't have any details because the whole thing was phony. The usernames ring a bell.The last thing is that I'm really amazed at grown men who spend hundreds, and even thousands, of dollars on knives and then want to gripe about some piddly fees. I have saved a pretty good chunk of money on my knife, and knife related purchases, just from the free information I've gotten from this forum. Personally, if I can help this site financially( by whatever means ) I will. I really enjoy coming here. Bruce
 
First-The original issue here was the Spam problem. Even though I followed directions I am still inundated with it. I'll give it a day or two to see if that problem resolves itself.
Second- Everybody has to make a living. The opening of 1SKS adds to competition. This benefits the consumer in all sorts of ways, Free Market economics, you may remember this from Civics class. If we get another venue for buying what we want at a competitive price, that is good. If the money we spend helps to support our ability to talk to one another, and Mike and Spark get to feed their families, better still.
Third-hindsight is 20/20. Sometimes promises are not kept because they were made by someone that could not see the future. we all revise our plans every day as new information becomes available. Everything is not an evil plot.
Fourth-Mike & Spark, The change was wildly unpopular in large part to the hugely cumbersome and user unfriendliness of the software. Also, I noted that the prices for numerous things were at a level that could be beat by numerous dealers. Most of us have already seen that show at Ebay.
Fifth-We all might take a step back from all these charges and recriminations and say thanks to Mike and Spark for their work which provides us a place to share our love of knives, to show off our toys to each other, to learn from each other, and yes, maybe make a buck or two here and there. Let us not use this forum to backbite one another.
Finally let us be grateful that our voices have been heard and the old forums have been restored.
Whew, That's more than i've said at one time in a long time.


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The thorn stands to defend the Rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict
 
And now we're getting (or at least I am) spammed from Mike at wowinc. I like how he qualifies the spam as being sent, "in compliance of the proposed bill: SECTION 301. Per Section 301, [blah blah blah..]" :barf:
 
Originally posted by Cougar Allen
This thread is two years old.
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Good thing you pointed out how old this thread is, I was seriously thinking about visiting a shrink for perception and memory trubles :D
 
I probably should of started a new thread, sorry for the confusion. But I was just trying to point out the irony that Mike@wowinc was bashing patrick for sending out unsolicited emails (read the entire thread). And two years later, Mike's doing the same bloody thing. Maybe it's my mistake, but I thought BF and wowinc went their separate ways . So, if the spam I received from Mike was not BF-sponsored, why did I receive it? I haven't bought anything from Mike, nor signed up or agreed(with BF) to be signed up with any lists affiliated with wowinc, or anyone else for that matter. Here's the email, sent by 'WOW-Distribution':

Here is the deal, we have closed our HUGE warehouse which used to be World Of Weapons in Jacksonville Florida. We are about to launch a new company with an entirely new product mix.

See us in booth 31 at the upcoming Blade Show!

We have thousands of knives left over and we must liquidate them NOW!

We have created "lots" and each lot will contain anywhere from just a few knives to over a hundred. Many of these auctions will contain nothing but name brand knives. Make certain you visit each of our auctions as you may miss out on an incredible deal on brands like Microtech, Benchmade, Camillus, Buck, Smith & Wesson, CRK&T, Gigand, United Cutlery, Gil Hibben, Dragon Forge, Seven Star Cutlery, Outdoor Edge, Edge Tech, EDI, Spyderco, Myerco, Junglee, Harley Davidson and so many more! Each auction will start out at a very low price and there will be
NO RESERVE ON ANY AUCTION WE DO!

http://cgi6.blahblah.com/aw-cgi/eBa...&rows=0&userid=wow-direct.com&since=-1&sort=2

If the link above does not work simply copy and paste it into your browser.

We will be adding auctions daily so keep checking back for the latest updates and to make sure your bid is still on top.

Visit www.blahblah.wow-direct.com for more information and direct links to our auctions.

Want a hint of what is on auction?
How about the complete collection of BladeForums.com REKAT collaborations and serial #001 to boot!
Over 40 auctions are running right now and we have several hundred to go! The good stuff will go first and fast so check them out ASAP.

Thanks for listening and happy Ebaying :)

This message is sent in compliance of the proposed bill: SECTION 301. Per Section 301,
Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may
be stopped at no cost to you by sending a Reply to this email address with the word Remove
in the subject line.



Best Regards,
WOW-Distribution

www.wowinc.com
904-737-5758 Voice
904-737-1711 FAX
800-969-7771 Orders
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm overreacting, but when it comes to spam my blood boils over. I get way too much of it as it is.
 
Did you try responding with the word "remove" in the subject line? If you did, and you continue to receive emails from Mr. Turber, then I think you have a legitimate gripe. Otherwise, I think you are indeed over-reacting. I get the occasional spam email, and if there are clear instructions for not recieving more, I follow them. Otherwise, the sender's email gets blocked. It seems to work; I hardly ever get any spam.
 
The email was sent out to those who are either on my email list or anyone who has contacted me for info. Your email address was collected using a program called Gee Wiz off of my hard drive. This means you have at some point in time contacted me or wow for something and your email address is still on file with me. If you do not wish to receive any emails simply follow the directions in the email.
 
>This means you have at some point in time contacted me or wow for
> something and your email address is still on file with me.

I may have sent you email in regards to the Tachyon, but does that give you permission to add my address to your spam list???
 
And I will not click on the link in the email to remove myself from your list. I usually end up getting spammed more doing so as it just confirms my email address. Spam mail is spam mail, no exception. And my next step would be to file a complaint with your isp if I continue receiving your unsolicited emails.

But I do believe I am free to complain about it here in this forum, unless Spark says I can't.
 
Sure, complain all you want....

Actual spammers, of course, use that "remove" address they give to confirm that there is somebody at your address to spam. If you think that's what Mike uses his remove address for, well, maybe you should plonk him instead ... or maybe you should complain to his ISP ... or maybe you should post all over the net calling him a spammer ...
 
Ok, whatever, just shoot me for b1tching about spam mail. I'm just complaining here because it's a little more personal than just regular spam mail. It's coming from a well-known and reputable seller. I also originally thought the spam was tied to BF in some way.
 
How about I just click on your pofile, find out who you are and remove you myself?

Then I will go out side, find the nearest cliff and fling myself off of it :D

Will that make you happy???

THe above is, of course, in jest. I just find it amuzing at times that people complain about such petty things. You are obviously interested in knives and I thought it would be a good idea to let people in on some killer deals I was letting go at Ebay. For the record I have only received 5 "remove" requests out of a few thousand emails sent.

I don't sell my lists, or spam you in any way. I send out information to those who have requested it and I try to update people when I have auctions or specials on knives which by being a member here I hope you are still interested in.
 
Again, the spam I received from you really hit home, since you are a reputable seller and are highly visible here and at other forums. It's just very disappointing.
 
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