Steel Comparison

C

Coyote420

Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
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Just wanna know people's thoughts and comparisons with steels. I'm looking mainly at S30V, VG-10, 420HC, 154CM/ATS-34/RWL-34, 12C27(mod), and AUS-8. I know there's other steels but these seem to be the most popular.

I'm kinda biased towards the stainless steels, so any advocates for A2/D2 or High Carbon Steels go ahead and try to persuade me, but I saw my buddies Benchmade D2 blade snap in half yesterday when he was barely widdling some very soft red wood, probably a defective blade but he had had it for over a year already.

Which do you think has the longest edge retention while at the same time being the easiest to resharpen?

Whats the lowest maintenance steel for the toughest dirtiest jobs?

Which knives do you suggest for hunting/camping/backpacking? About a 5 inch shiny/reflective fixed blade (no black coating) and under $200. Easily carried around, but still able to chop wood, prepare animal carcasses, and shave hair off your arm.

I know about INFI and busse knives but they're just too expensive for now.

Any thoughts specifically on these knives: Al Mar Sere Operator, Buck Pathfinder and Simonich Raven Legacy, Fallkniven S1, SOG Seal and NW Ranger, Bark River Sandstorm, Ohare Custom Hunter(too expensive)

Thanks
 
Coyote420 said:
Which knives do you suggest for hunting/camping/backpacking? About a 5 inch shiny/reflective fixed blade (no black coating) and under $200. Easily carried around, but still able to chop wood, prepare animal carcasses, and shave hair off your arm.



Thanks
Click to expand...

Fallniven S1 (laminated VG-10 stainless)
Bark River Aurora (A2 tool steel)
 
rifon2 said:
Fallniven S1 (laminated VG-10 stainless)
Bark River Aurora (A2 tool steel)
Click to expand...

Would you chose the Bark River Aurora over the Sandstorm or do you think Bark River is good enough that it doesn't matter which steel they use?
 
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In that group of steel you are probably looking for S30V then. But I really like VG-10 a lot.
 
Coyote420 said:
Just wanna know people's thoughts and comparisons with steels. I'm looking mainly at S30V, VG-10, 420HC, 154CM/ATS-34/RWL-34, 12C27(mod), and AUS-8. I know there's other steels but these seem to be the most popular.

I'm kinda biased towards the stainless steels, so any advocates for A2/D2 or High Carbon Steels go ahead and try to persuade me, but I saw my buddies Benchmade D2 blade snap in half yesterday when he was barely widdling some very soft red wood, probably a defective blade but he had had it for over a year already.

Which do you think has the longest edge retention while at the same time being the easiest to resharpen?

Whats the lowest maintenance steel for the toughest dirtiest jobs?

Which knives do you suggest for hunting/camping/backpacking? About a 5 inch shiny/reflective fixed blade (no black coating) and under $200. Easily carried around, but still able to chop wood, prepare animal carcasses, and shave hair off your arm.

I know about INFI and busse knives but they're just too expensive for now.

Any thoughts specifically on these knives: Al Mar Sere Operator, Buck Pathfinder and Simonich Raven Legacy, Fallkniven S1, SOG Seal and NW Ranger, Bark River Sandstorm, Ohare Custom Hunter(too expensive)

Thanks
Click to expand...
There's quite a bit of "relativity" to your question......much has to do with the steel's heat treat and how the blade is ground. For instance, CRKT's AUS8 is serviceable but unimpressive, while Moki's AUS8 is quite remarkable and rivals VG-10. Also, keep in mind most knives are not meant to be used as pry bars....many are not intented as "choppers". Match the task to the knife. To keep my answer brief......all of the knives you are considering have good steel, are heat treated properly by the maker, and will perform admirably.

- regards
 
Fallkniven F1/A1/A2 comes to mind. Tough laminated stuff.

Of course, a RC-4/6 from RAT Cutlery would rock as well. :)
 
All those steels are decent, but some are more decent than others. Not long ago I was looking for some information on 440A and heard it described as "trash" and "garbage" and "junk" and some even more impolite terms, yet my own experience with Cold Steel 440A has been entirely the opposite.

When judging steels, factors include edge retention, ability to sharpen, toughness, corrosion resistance and price. Another factor is how easy it is to sharpen to an extreme sharpness. Some of the steels that have the best edge retention are a bit of a bear to quickly sharpen to a sharp, sharp edge. They hold the edge for a long time, but when it's time to resharpen them, some require more time and effort.

For my use, AUS8 and VG1 are my favorite steels. When they lose their scary sharp edges, I can quickly restore them in the brief time between when the wife calls me for dinner and the time that I show up. Both of these steels, plus 440A (CS), sharpen to bleeding sharp in like a minute. I can slice ribbons of paper, shave my arm and all of the other things knife owners like to do with their newly sharpened knives, and then I use them for a number of days until I have to do it all again. The little pocket criss-cross sharpeners barely work on these steels and are even worse on the premium steels.

I also have a CRKT S-2 knife that I'm fond of. I can sharpen it and use it noticeably longer than I do my 440A/AUS8 blades before needing to resharpen, but bringing it back to great sharpness takes a little longer. I think the 440A/AUS8/VG1 steels are easier to sharpen in the field than the premium blades, and I think there's a lot to be said for that.

All the steels you mention are more than adequate for daily utility work unless you spend a lot of time cutting tough materials. People have said that using a Buck 420HC, that they many times have to give it a quick sharpening when cutting up a deer because of all the strain put on the edge. But they say that the same knife with S30V will go through an entire deer and through one half of another deer before needing resharpening. But I have no personal experience with 420HC.

ColdSteelNightForce_4.jpg


Even this serrated 440A CS Night Force will cut strips of paper cleanly all
day long with its original edge.

BuckSteelChart.jpg


This chart comes with Buck's Alaskan series. As you can see, they rate
their own 420HC very highly.

CRKTS-2_6.jpg


This CRKT S-2 is a beautiful knife and has an ATS-34 stainless blade. It holds
an edge for a very long time, but doesn't sharpen quite as quickly as my others.
 
Coyote420 said:
Would you chose the Bark River Aurora over the Sandstorm or do you think Bark River is good enough that it doesn't matter which steel they use?
Click to expand...

Yes, I would choose the Aurora over the Sandstorm.

The Aurora is designed to perform as you described in your OP - batoning, effectively field dressing game, etc.

I also like A2 better than 12C27; I think A2 is one of the very best blade steels available.

(It's not as corrosion resistant of course as stainless steel, but it's relatively corrosion resistant in comparison to pure "carbon steel" - such as 1095 -
due to its chromium content of about 5%.)
 
So it looks like its been narrowed down to VG10, S30V, and AUS-8, in that order. The Fallkniven knives have been getting great reviews and even though I think the Buck Raven is prettier and that Buck is such a trusted knife maker, I've had people say that it is just more of pretty knife than a useful knife, plus its more expensive.

How about the Al Mar Sere Operator for an S30V blade?

Thoughts on the SOG Seal?

The Buck comparison chart that Confederate posted also made 154CM/ATS-34/RWL-34 look good. Any knives in that steel cheaper than the Ohare Custom Hunter?

Any more votes for other steels or knives before I go for the Fallkniven S1?
 
A good way to try out the performance of 12C27 is to buy an inexpensive Mora at Ragnar (ragweedforge.com) and see for yourself. You might be surprised, most people are.
 
Razorsharp244 said:
A good way to try out the performance of 12C27 is to buy an inexpensive Mora at Ragnar (ragweedforge.com) and see for yourself. You might be surprised, most people are.
Click to expand...

My buddy has a Mora and he loves it, says it's "durable as fuck."

How do people think 12C27, specifically Mora, compares to VG10 which seems to be another favored steel of Swedish knives, specifically Fallkniven?

Thanks everyone for all your info and help.
 
You may want to edit your post for content (ie. F**k), Coyote, as there are younger and more sensitive viewers of these pages.

Thanks.
 
Confederate said:
All the steels you mention are more than adequate for daily utility work unless you spend a lot of time cutting tough materials. People have said that using a Buck 420HC, that they many times have to give it a quick sharpening when cutting up a deer because of all the strain put on the edge. But they say that the same knife with S30V will go through an entire deer and through one half of another deer before needing resharpening. But I have no personal experience with 420HC.

ColdSteelNightForce_4.jpg


Even this serrated 440A CS Night Force will cut strips of paper cleanly all
day long with its original edge.

BuckSteelChart.jpg


This chart comes with Buck's Alaskan series. As you can see, they rate
their own 420HC very highly.

CRKTS-2_6.jpg


This CRKT S-2 is a beautiful knife and has an ATS-34 stainless blade. It holds
an edge for a very long time, but doesn't sharpen quite as quickly as my others.
Click to expand...


Buck 420 HC will clean several deer if you know what you are doing. That said, I'm sure whoever posted that, didn't know what they were doing. Probably tried to cut the feet off with a knife.

I'd like to see the tread where someone posted that. 420HC > Deer or any other kind of flesh. It will cut for a long time. Flesh isn't very tough at all.
 
I'm betting your buddys knife was being used for something it wasn't supposed to previous to the blade breaking. Knife blades just don't break from wittling soft wood or any wood for that matter. I'll bet bataning or prying could have been involved as a defect should have shown up in the blade within a year I would think. Depends on how much use it got.

I am quite the opposite. I love high carbon steels. After using them I clean them up and oil them. Never had any issues. Of coarse, I have some stainless blades that have given me no issues as well. Just depends on the company offering the steel. Some are better than others.


S30V
D2
 
Lumping all high carbon steels in with D2 is a bit misleading. There is a world of difference between 1055 and D2, but both would be considered carbon steels by the knife world classification, which basically means if its not stainless, then it must be carbon steel. I cant help thinking that there was either a flaw in the blade or some damage was present from previous use for any D2 blade to snap while whittling wood. Either way, that sucker would be going back to BM for a replacement/refund. I threw an M2 blade into another piece of steel and only lost 1/16" of the tip.

Of the knives you named, the Fallkniven would be my pick, followed by the Al Mar.

The chart from Buck is somewhat suspect, what with S30V rating higher than 420 in corrosion resistance. If sharpenability is defined as the ease with which metal can be removed by abrasives, which is not how I define it, then S30V shouldnt come close to any steel listed, and certainly shouldnt be ahead of any of them.
 
Coyote420 said:
My buddy has a Mora and he loves it, says it's "durable as fuck."

How do people think 12C27, specifically Mora, compares to VG10 which seems to be another favored steel of Swedish knives, specifically Fallkniven?

Thanks everyone for all your info and help.
Click to expand...

If you would ask the general swedish population about knife steels you would not score many good answers. VG10 is also quite rare in Sweden, only Fällkniven basically and they export most knives anyway.

The people who I meet and who has a genuine interest in blade steels here are the custom makers and they use almost exclusively Sandvik 12C27 and Uddeholm AEB-L. They are quite similar and fulfill what they require, which is:
*Tough (Swedish knives are thinner than US ones)
*Easy to polish (custom guys loves this fact)
*Easy to sharpen (coarse grades like ATS-34, VG10 or 440C does not take a thin Scandi grind as easy)
*Good hardness range (58-60 HRC is most common for them)

About Moras. Many of my friends dont see the point in getting other knives than a few Moras. They are cheaper here in Sweden than the US and the performance is superb as a slicer imo. You get a stainless clipper here for 7$, and that includes 25% sales tax. I love more high-end knives but find it hard to not agree with their point of view. The good thing is that anyone can afford and try one.
 
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