Steel Grade...Flavours...?

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KillerGriller

Joined
Sep 4, 2018
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I've been looking at my material options for (re)starting some blade making, and I'm interested in how you folks decide on what to buy/work with?

Outside of hardness, toughness, corrosion resistance levels and the compromises you make balancing the three; how did/do you choose your preferred metal to work with? Or why did you fall in love with your material of choice? What makes it "feel right" in your hand?
 
Well, it is those exact 3 things (and wear resistance) that you MUST factor in when choosing a steel, so you can't choose one "outside" of those parameters, except maybe cost and availability. And what makes "it" feel right in the hand depends on how well the blade is balance, and the handle construction.
 
I was aiming for a more philosophical conversation on "feeling" rather than the engineering, material properties, and the physics of gravity on metal in your hand :cool:
 
well, i guess its not so much philosophy but I look at it this way....what type of aesthetic do i want? Each "end result" takes some practice and my material choice will vary based on this. Do I want something satin finished? belt finished? super thin profile? very long/very short, low maintenance? etc. If I want to make a "quick" low maintenance , easy to sharpen knife im going with AEBL. Do I want to challenge my finishing capabilities? Then its gonna be some kind of san mai or pattern welded. Is this going to be a forged piece? low tech heat treat? I have not done this yet but my choice would be 1084. theres something to love about all these materials and each one is gonna require a different skill set once you get down to the nitty gritty details. does that make any sense?
 
I like the flavor of W2. It tastes like licorice to me. 1070 has a more bitter taste, and CPM-S35VN has almost no taste at all.

Beyond that, I pick the steel best suited for the blade task.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I like the flavor of W2. It tastes like licorice to me. 1070 has a more bitter taste, and CPM-S35VN has almost no taste at all.

Beyond that, I pick the steel best suited for the blade task.
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I love licorice. I was just in France and the had candy with licorice and menthol. That's what I'm hoping CruForgeV taste like.
I have some M4 that tasted a bit like scotch. Not good scotch but the stuff you put ice in. It tastes that way when it's cold and wet.... like right after i use it to fish the ice out of my scotch
 
I think it really all depends on what type of knife making you want to do... if you want to do your own heat treat in your forge after you bang out a knife on the anvil, you are gonna want one thing. If you want a hamon, you might want another, or maybe the same.
If you want stainless or want someone else to do your heat treating, you are going to want something else entirely.
I think if there is a philosophical decision to make its if you want to be “primitive” or “advanced” in your approach to heat treating...
 
After poking about with several carbon and stainless steels, I've settled one simple and one complex steel in each category. At the moment, these are:

Simple Carbon: 1084 - cheap, performs great, tough, fine edge, and I can heat treat it reliably in my small forge. Also great for experiments and quick turnaround.
Complex Carbon: A2 - well-established high-performance tool steel, much more wear resistant, with straightforward heat-treat and good dimensional stability during quench. More affordable than the super fancy stuff. Available p-ground from almost anywhere.

Simple Stainless: AEB-L - inexpensive, fine edge, tough, straightforward heat-treat
Complex Stainless: S35VN - most expensive of the bunch, sellable, decent balance of blade properties in stainless, easy enough heat treat. This could easily be swapped for CPM154, but S35VN is more desirable in the marketplace

Of those four, I pick the best suited for the blade I want to make, or make something suitable out of what I have on hand. Other steel variations usually fall close enough to one of those four that it's hard to make a BAD choice with only those four to choose from, for the kind of stuff I make.

Of course I've still got O1, 154CM, and CPM154 kicking around, but probably won't buy more. So I chose a balance of performance, cost, and least-misery. Exotics and finicky heat-treat aren't worth the trouble for me as a small, hobby maker. I'd rather be good at a smaller number of things. For instance, O1 is best done with an electric kiln AND oil. Give me forge & oil OR kiln and plate quench. I have a pair of O1 blades I haven't bothered to sand for heat because it's a pain. Maybe some people quench foil packets in oil, then manage to straighten before O1 sets up? Anyway, those are the things that govern my flavor choices.
 
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Even those of you attempting to answer this question have given a material science answer. I think some of you are giving too much credit to the post. There comes a time when enough is enough. What a crap post. “Philosophical” discussion of why you choose what steel you use “excluding” its material properties????

It’s like saying “why in a philosophical way” is one fighter jet (or car, or whatever) is better than the other. All material science and physics excluded, why do you pick on over the other?

It’s nonsense. Because one has a better paint job? (Remember the post said excluding all material science)

In a world where feelings get hurt, some of us seem like every answer to every question must be posed in a manner where feelings don’t get hurt. At all. I miss the days where we can just say the obvious. This post is like a few recently. Like.....what??? Are you serious???
 
Diazee, you posted as I did. Yet your entire answer was based upon material science. And rightly so.


There is no “philosophical” answer to this OP. It just is anathema to a knife maker. There is no philosophical answer as to why we choose one steel over another. We choose one steel over another because of its material properties. Simple as that. Nothing more to add or detract,
Except what was stated....price/availability.

You might could add (as in my case) my kiln will only reach 1750f. And because I like to heat treat my own steel, I prefer alloys that are a2 and under. That is still a material properties question, and has nothing to do with “philosophical “.
 
samuraistuart said:
Even those of you attempting to answer this question have given a material science answer. I think some of you are giving too much credit to the post. There comes a time when enough is enough. What a crap post. “Philosophical” discussion of why you choose what steel you use “excluding” its material properties????

It’s like saying “why in a philosophical way” is one fighter jet (or car, or whatever) is better than the other. All material science and physics excluded, why do you pick on over the other?

It’s nonsense. Because one has a better paint job? (Remember the post said excluding all material science)

In a world where feelings get hurt, some of us seem like every answer to every question must be posed in a manner where feelings don’t get hurt. At all. I miss the days where we can just say the obvious. This post is like a few recently. Like.....what??? Are you serious???
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Hmmmm...a crap post, that no one should bother answering because someone might get hurt and upset...that you’ve responded to three times...hmmm

No feelings hurt here, respond to the post or don’t, no skin off my nose. I was merely trying to start a conversation that doesn’t have an obvious answer, like sitting around a campfire shooting the shit. I didn’t think anyone would get their panties in a twist over something so benign, but you proved me wrong, kudos!

Actually, you saying “because I like to heat treat my own steel, I prefer alloys that are a2 and under” is a fine answer. Thumbs up.



And for the record if the jets or cars were similar in performance metrics i’d pick the cooler looking one...
 
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stuarts maybe right but also a bit harsh lol :p ok, ok , but to the OP what kind of knives are you planning to make? whats your answer to your question so far?
 
Is this a blade steel, or just my limited human perception of a blade steel? WTF?
 
I'll admit my thought was poorly worded, "Flavour" and "Philosophy" aren't the right words and it seems to be a hangup, my bad.

I'm trying to wrap my head around why people make certain material choices, if it was as simple as "use X for this type of knife, it's the best material" there wouldn't be variations out there, but yet there are. Guess I'm trying to understand the human factor in what you do and failing, badly. I rescind my question.

Willie71 said:
Is this a blade steel, or just my limited human perception of a blade steel? WTF?
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Exactly, please excuse my fuckery
 
Several things drive my choice of steel. I’ll list some of them in no particular order.

The customer has an interest in a specific alloy.

Availability.

Ease of working; heat treat, polishing, grinding, sharpening, forging, and forge welding.

Cost, economy, value, and perceived value.

Familiarity. I’ve done a lot of work with aeb-l and like it so it’s easy for me to continue using it.

I pick steels based on reported properties. Using tougher steels for certain knives and more wear resistant steels for others and more stain resistant steels for those that need it.

Really, it’s a never ending thing. I feel sorry for and respect those who use just a few alloys.

I’m sure this won’t help much, just some thoughts.

Hoss
 
KillerGriller said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around why people make certain material choices, if it was as simple as "use X for this type of knife, it's the best material" there wouldn't be variations out there, but yet there are. Guess I'm trying to understand the human factor in what you do and failing, badly. I rescind my question.
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Yep, believe it or not, just just that simple..... what some think of as "best" varies from person to person, and to what use is desired. Even though the selection varies from person to person, it still boils down to "best material". I don't think I've ever heard any knifemaker talk about "feelings" (as in emotions) when choosing a blade material...... well, except for the folks that know for sure a forged blade is better than a stock removal because forging makes the grain line up better, and of course it must be quenched in a north to South direction.... or is it east/west? {g}
 
“You” said I was “hurt and upset”. Uuuuhhh....not. I’m just sick of some of the posts here (especially recently). And yours is yet another great example.

You even admitted that your question had no answer. Duh. Hence my immediate reply. There is no philosophical discussion as to why a material is chosen in material science realm. You can cuss and reply in however a childish answer you wish (you’ve proven quite capable). The answer is very simple. There is nothing philosophical about this. You even replied to my comment about my kiln only reaching 1750, so I am limited to A2 if I want to HT in my own. And yet you said that is what you are after. That is still a material science question !!!! It’s not philosophical at all. My current equipment limits me to a2 and below. Nothing philosophical about it.

I know I am coming across as super cynical. I get it. But I guess I just want to ask people before they post “Please, for the love of all that is holy, please think a few minutes about what you are asking/stating before you post!” “Or at least search it first”.

Look, KillerGriller, please forgive my straightforwardness. There just is no use or information as to a philosophical answer as to what steel we choose. It’s that simple.

Look, I have sworn off “Shop Talk” more times than I want to admit. But, my nature wants to help others. It is “Shop Talk” that taught me more than I could repay. So I feel compelled to return and try and help in my very very small way.

It’s posts like yours (and more to the point....the replies) that tell me to join the others who have left.

So, for your own sake, and in no small part for the sake of others here who want to help....can you give us an example of the answer you have in mind?
 
I am moving this to Around The Grinder, where such discussions can be chatted about.
 
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