Stones for a Beginner

M

Malazan

Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
10
Hey all, started collecting knives, I’ve picked up a Microtech LUDT, Benchmade Emissary 3.5, Microtech Ultratech. Also have a couple Kershaws and CRKT’s, and an assortment of cheap folders and kitchen knives to start practicing on.

My steels are M390, ELMAX, S30V, 1030-1095

Question is which stones to get. Would like one set to do it all, but I’m not against multiple types of stones if needed.

I was looking at:

Shapton Glass in 220, 320, 500, 1000, 4000
DMT Dia-Sharp XC, C, F, XF
Naniwa Professional 400, 1000, 5000

Thank you,

John
 
One set to do it all would be the diamonds you listed. They will cut all of your steels. Whether or not you like the blade edge from diamonds alone on all of those steels is a different question, but they will work.
 
Last edited:
I have literally all of those stones and I love them all.

All of those stones are excellent and will do everything you need of them.
Shapton Pro/Kuromaku are also incredible stones and are worth your consideration.

All of them will sharpen any steel. Even S110V gave me no issues.

How do I personally feel about your selections?
- SG are the coolest stones to work with. There so freakin sleek! And their abrasive density is insane so they're faster than a scared Kenyan.
- The Naniwa Pro's might be my favorite? I love my Naniwa Pros. They have nice feedback, cut so damn fast, they're hard, they utterly refuse to load, they polish a little higher then their grit, splash n go, and they're also very readily available, even up here in Canada. Although they're expensive, if you are just sharpening a couple folders, etc, they will likely last you whole decades.
- The DMT's have some feedback, but generally feel like crap/nothing. I do worry about using too much pressure, but I have a lighter hand in sharpening, and so far I haven't seemed to have negatively affected the plates. Less maintenance is their strongest suit, however the waterstones you've selected rarely require flattening. And the kit you've selected only goes up to about 1200, unless you throw the MEF, or EEF in there as well. The EEF is neato. Not a mirror, but a nice, high toothy edge. DMTs/electroplated diamond plates can also cause some annoyances near the ricasso on some folders, depending on how well the plunge grind was done. Ergo having a 220 stone with a 3 dimensional layer of abrasive will also be a good idea.

What would I get in your shoes?
DMT EC (flattener, reprofiler), Shapton 220 (reprofiler, extreme-toothy edge), Naniwa 400 (toothy edge), Naniwa 1k (mid-range slicey and pushcutty), Naniwa 5k (polished edge--with a little stropping, you'll get quite a bright luster on that bevel).

Given your options, this covers all the bases, according to my own edge/sharpening philosophy. As always: YMMV ;)
 
Last edited:
I like diamonds for high alloy steels like S30V and waterstones for lower alloy steels like 1095 and elmax to some extent.

I would pick the DMT Coarse and Fine for sharpening high alloy steels. These two stones pack a lot of punch and is capable of producing some very sharp edges.

For waterstones its a little more difficult, I am very fond of Shapton stones but like the diamond plates they have very little feedback and while I feel they are enjoyable most every other waterstone is pretty much better in that regard. The Naniwa Pro are some that come to mind when speaking of great feeling and sharpening enjoyment, you could push steel over these all day long and never not smile. The down side is they are expensive and temperamental to environmental conditions. I would also highly recommend the 3k over the 5k in that set.

Also realize that the most important part to any waterstone kit is a good lapping plate and the Atoma 140 is by far the best option.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. Will the Naniwa sharpen steels like S30, M390, Elmax
LOL it seems like there is quite an argument about whether you need diamonds or not to sharpen higher end steels
 
Elmax, unless taken to a high hardness is not all that wear resistant or hard to sharpen with standard stones so I don't think I would group that with the rest of them.

The Vanadium content is the thing to look at and when it hits or exceeds 4% then it's time to consider other abrasives to sharpen with. Vanadium is harder than all but CBN and diamond so once you start getting into higher and higher percentages of Vanadium the ability to sharpen and create a crisp Apex on that steel decreases. This is where diamond or CBN step in and allow you to actually sharpen through the hard carbides instead of just rubbing against them.

So, to answer your question. No, Naniwa Pro stones will not work with high alloy steels. They were designed for Japanese chisels and kitchen knives made of simple carbon or stainless steel. In my usage I find them to be best on medium to low hardness steels and ideal for starting a base polish on traditional single bevel knives like the Yanagi. Again, great for your carbon steels and some average stainless but far from ideal for high alloy steels.
 
If you want the feel of waterstones and the power of diamonds there are also diamond bonded waterstones. Naniwa makes some but they are very expensive and I believe a Russian company (starts with a V) has some that are much cheaper though I am unsure of the quality. Several on hear have used them and seem to like them so far...
 
Just to be clear, Are the Shapton Glass stones hard enough to cut high Vanadium steels?
 
They can work with some of them but the variables are so great I would recommend sticking with what works every time... Diamonds.

They will do better than 99% of other waterstones but the ceramic abrasive is still not as hard as the Vanadium carbides so you WILL have issues with the sharpening.

The Glass stones we're originally made for sharpening the very hard A2 steel of Lie Nielsen chisels and later found to also work well on some modern steels of kitchen and pocket cutlery. So, being originally designed for carbon tool steels it has the cutting power to work with some advanced modern alloys but you really push the limits by trying to use them with super alloys like S90V, M390 or S35VN.
 
If you go Diamond I'd recommend the venev bonded diamond bench stones for beginners . I suggest these because the diamonds don't get worn off or broken off... As the diamonds are bonded in an organic epoxy.
 
Last edited:
To keep it simple with one set of stones to cover all those steels, I'd start with a set of diamonds. Then later, expand your set with specialized stones--such as the Naniwa water stones.

I would recommend starting with a set of basic DMT plates, these are widely used and recommended here by folks in the forum, including me. I have both the continous and interrupted ones, but if starting today I'd get the continuous 8" diasharp plates, and start with these grits: extra-coarse, coarse, fine. Those, and a strop with CBN compound, you're covered for the basics.
 
I just picked up the Dia Sharp 4 piece 8” stones in XC, C, F, EF

Would the Medium EF, and EEF, be worthwhile investments down the road?

Later I will also pick up some Naniwa Pros in 400, 1000, 3000 for my lower steels


Thanks for everyone’s input
 
Welcome to the forum!!!

The DMT’s are excellent plates, you should get many years of use out of them.
With diamonds though a Very light touch is needed.
They will shed diamonds and take off way more steel than needed if too much pressure is used.

Also it looks like you have some really nice knives.
You should get comfortable with sharpening using some lower priced knives.
Then when you need to sharpen the high vanadium steel you will have a feel for things.

I also suggest a Crystolon, India, American Mutt, or another type low grit stone for any lesser carbon steel, diamond stones can be too aggressive at times.

Japanese water stones are very nice too and Naniwa Pro’s (Chosera) are top shelf.
Shapton stones are great too.
Even King stones are great as long as you are not using super steels.

Good luck, make sure you have good lighting and magnification also.
 
To get started, you can do everything you need with those plates you have. Honestly, if you do a solid job doing your primary apexing on the C or F plates, and then strop, you will find for general purpose (gp) knives that you won't even need the EF plate a lot or see much performance boost from using it. A lot of my sharpening progressions for gp knives have gotten really simple, for example I recently started using this progression: DMT C > strop with CBN compound. You can do everything you need up to and including creating hair-whittling edges, with the plates you have plus a decent strop. In fact, with modern PM steels, sometimes you don't even need the strop, you can get those results just by doing good work and refining on your plates.

I would suggest focusing on technique and learning how to create awesome edges with those 4 plates you got, you may never need the higher grit ones, but if you do, it's easy to add them later.

Malazan said:
I just picked up the Dia Sharp 4 piece 8” stones in XC, C, F, EF

Would the Medium EF, and EEF, be worthwhile investments down the road?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top