Strider SNG vs. Sebenza. Your Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Strider Knives Forum' started by Megalobyte, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. Megalobyte

    Megalobyte

    Jun 5, 2002
    Well, i just bought 2 more SNG's today, both SW, one tanto, one SP, i already had a first run striped tanto, so i now have 3, so, nobody can accuse me of not liking this knife quite a bit. However, i also own and have owned Sebenzas and am a VERY big fan of them. In fact, i might even say that part of what attracts me to the SNG is that it is a knife that strikes me as being as strong as a Sebenza, and yet a very different knife, and since I have a nice Sebenza, and have had several, different is good. And yet, they are somewhat similar knives. Both are arguably semi-custom. Both are extremely strong with thick frame locks. Both have S30V blades. Theyre close in size. So, my question is, how would you compare them in terms of quality, which knife do you feel is the better built, better put together knife? Which do you think is stronger? Obviously this being the Strider forum, i expect to hear a lot of pro-Strider votes, and yet, im still interested to hear how you would compare the 2 knives.

    I can give you my quick take on them. Remember, i LOVE the SNG, so im in no way bashing it. In short, i think the Sebenza is the slightly better made knife, and yet, i like the SNG just as much, ill quickly explain. I think that more time goes into the final, small touches that give the Sebenza truly flawless fit and finish, and incredible consistancy knife to knife, while the SNGs are slightly less refined, though i wouldnt call them crude, and slightly less consistant. The SNG is a very well made knife to be sure, i have no complaints, i just think the Sebenzas are slightly better made, though not neccessarily a better knife, thats a matter of taste.

    I was recently able to handle and examine honestly, about 40 brand new SNG's, half tanto, half spearpoint, and yes, i actually opened and closed every single one, several times, im crazy like that, and i found that 1) Not a single one had any blade play, definitely admirable, the lockup is just as solid as can be. 2) Most of the locks engaged the blade well, fully, but towards the left, where i like it, though there were just one or 2 that went too far to the right for my tastes, though i admit, it didnt seem like it would hurt lock strength at all. 3) I found that some knives had slightly uneven grinds. 4) I found that some of the frame locks were much stiffer to disengage than others, im pretty sure the stiff ones would smooth up a bit with use though. 5) Finally, most blades were well centered, though they did vary slightly. So, overall, i found the knives to be fairly consistant, especially where it counts, no blade play, and a solid, well fit lock engagement.

    On the other hand, i have yet to see a Sebenza without a perfectly centered blade, without perfect lockup, never seen one with blade play and i have never seen any sort of flaw in a Sebenza, and i have examined at least as many as i did the SNG's. So, please, dont take my post as bashing Strider in any way, i am in LOVE with Strider knives, and love the SNG, just as much as my Sebenza, but, if i have to say which is the more consistant, higher quality knife, i have to give the nod slightly to CRK. That being said, i still feel the SNG is a better built knife than most knives i have seen, and is up to any task asked of it, its just that to me, perfectionist I am, the Sebenza is flawless and thats a very tough thing to beat, by anybody. Now, i understand that im a perfectionist and that most of my minor gripes about the SNG have nothing to do with how well the knife will perform, and everything to do with my craving for perfection, and so, when i say that the Sebenza is the higher quality knife, i do NOT intend to say that it is a BETTER knife, rather it better satisfies my odd sense of perfection, and Strider knives arent about looks and absolute perfection, theyre about performance and strength, and in this regard, as i said earlier, i have no complaints. Im just giving you my opinion on the question i have asked.

    So, your thoughts? (I hope i dont get flamed for this, its just one knife nuts experiences and statistically insignificant)
     
  2. L.O. Little

    L.O. Little

    760
    Dec 28, 2000
    Interesting thread you're starting. As an ex-Sebenza owner/lover and new Model 2 (spearpoint) SnG owner/lover, I think this is a comparison that BEGS to be done. However, I've only had my SnG for about 10 hours now. It takes me at least a day or so to really get a feel for a new knife. I'll let you know how I feel about the comparison of the two knives this weekend.

    There is one point that I need to bring up, the difference in CRK and Strider guarantees. One of the reasons I got away from CRK was the guarantee. Anybody remember Lenny?

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128546

    http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128519

    BTW, something interesting about that first thread is that Lenny started it, but his first post is no longer there.

    Strider has a much better guarantee. That means a LOT to me.
     
  3. mschwoeb

    mschwoeb

    Jan 31, 2001
    There are a lot of simularities. But here are what I think the differences are:

    Sebenza has a higher level of craftmanship. This is uinderstandable though, as the have been making this knife in the same way for over a decade, while Mick has just started and come up with the SnG!

    SnG is more confortable in the hand. This is just because it is so well designed, it just feels so nice in the hand.

    Innovation to me would have the SnG win. Trying a new combination of G-10 and Ti handles, and then the different types of SnGs, and also the choice of a Tanto blade or a Spearpoint.

    And as was mentioned the waranty.
     
  4. Dashunde2

    Dashunde2

    42
    Mar 12, 2002
    Even though they seem to be the same type of knife they are quite different in in three ways - Fit and Finish, Strenght and overall "Company Perspective".

    CRK designs and builds the Seb to be a cutter, and only a cutter... something the Seb does extremly well all while looking and feeling "well groomed". CRK has a warranty that reflects a sort of hard-nosed "It's for cutting only" philosophy... which falls in-line with their type of knife.

    The SnG is designed by Mick... and we all know that means there is a no fancy-pants approach to its design, construction or warranty.
    The Sng is simply designed to perform whatever task that needs to be done. I dont mean it should be used as a multi-tool... but if you break it in an honest way (or maybe any way) Mick will stand behind it.

    I figure that if you use your SnG to drill a hole in a 2x4 and you break your knife, Mick would probably be more pissed with the knifes failure to do the job than he would be with the user for trying such a task.

    Mick unknowingly sent me the XM-01 EB.T he had laying around.
    I expressed some concern with using that particular knife everyday in the sense that breaking the proto while doing my everyday foolishness would simply suck...
    He said something to the effect of "F--k it.. we love to see our stuff being used, not collected."
     
  5. biogon

    biogon

    Jan 2, 2002
    Lynn,

    I agree 110%.

    Same reason I got out of Sebbies -- I got some ... curt and not very helpful customer service from CRK once. To some degree, they remind me of BMW or Maserati's (or Apple's!) reputation.

    I'm also not terrible pleased by their "Why should we have to explain ourselves?" attitude. If the customer was wrong, I'd expect (on a forum such as this) to hear all the sides.

    Strider has always been entirely behind the user, and I've found that not only am I willing to pay more for good customer service, I choose with my pocketbook a product that the -maker- believes in.

    ----

    As to the actual question:

    I find my SnG a great deal more comfortable to cut with compared to the Seb. The Seb's handle ergos and blade-to-grip angle is a little off to me. In addition, I found the Seb to have insufficient protection against sliding forward onto the blade. The handles were slippery, but "sharp", if you know what I mean.

    (Mick, can you imagine? A knife you made... has great ergos!! Time to start designing your handles out of granite slabs now!)

    The sharp ridges on the thumbstud on the Seb kept giving me blisters; the SnG's tight retention and small oval-hole are abrasive but durable.

    I find the high-hollow grind on the Seb to be a good slicer, but not too much different (on thin-to-moderate material) compared to the SnG's broad flat grind. If anything, the Seb gets caught up on cardboard more than the SnG.

    -Jon
     
  6. Mick Strider

    Mick Strider

    Feb 16, 2000
    This is a great topic.
    Thanks for posting it.
    m
     
  7. Sidewinder

    Sidewinder

    887
    Jun 2, 2001
    I have both knives as well. I carry and use the SnG everyday. The sebe sits in a closet collecting dust. That should say which I like better. However, the Sebe is probably better manufactured. It has the better fit and finish. As was mentioned already, CRK has been refining the production of this knife for a long time. The SnG is made by hand for the most part and will have some variance in finish. Like Megalobyte, I too got my pick of SnG from a batch of about 40 knives. Each had it's own unique characteristics. That is one of the differences between a prduction knife and a custom one. My SnG is unique to me.

    Nothing against the Sebe, it is a great knife and well liked by a lot of people. I just happen to like the SnG better. IMO, better feel with the G10 handle, better grip design, blade disign and weight. In a user knife, I want to know that if I mess it up using it, I can send it back to Strider and they will take care of it for me. This point alone is worth a lot to me.

    S.
     
  8. shmoopiebear

    shmoopiebear

    Nov 4, 2002
    I think the thing that is interesting in this thread is the recent negative experiences that people have had with CRK and their warranty. If CRK does not back up their knives like they used to, I think as a consumer I would have a contentious issue with whether I would buy their knives or not. In fact, I would take exception to this and it would be a heads up to me in my decision to purchase another knife. I don't buy insurance expecting to have an accident but it is nice to know that it is there. As for Strider, the general consensus is they stand behind their product and give good customer service. That, unto itself, is an exception rather than being the rule nowadays it seems. I think retailers and service providers better take note or they will see their revenue fall and their customer base go elsewhere. I don't feel the need to use my Strider to the point of abuse. I hope that if and when the time comes, I can go to the company and expect them to back the product up no matter what my outlay is or was. OBTW, Mick, I have one of your Strider MFS. Delighted with it. Very stout and nice little entry and utility level knife in your line. Can't get over how [email protected] cute it is. Kudos. :D
     
  9. Oni

    Oni

    224
    Mar 5, 2002
    Shmoop

    I know for fact that Mick and Duane stand behind their products. I sent 2 of my Strider's in for some minor work. Both were fixed with no questions, nasty grams or hassle whatsoever.

    Happy owner of SnG 035. :D

    It's nice to know if it ever breaks, I can get it repaired with no worries.
     
  10. Architect

    Architect

    May 31, 2001
    SnG -

    I would personally prefer that the butt end of the handle have a slimmer profile. I think that the Classic Sebenza handle profile is superior in this regard - it is not so deterministic - and the is probably my least favorite aspect of the SnG design.

    I also like the SnG blade profile, although the blade is too short IMO for what the whole package delivers. It begs for a longer blade. I like a flat ground blade with full spine thickness (no swedge). I didn't like the first run cosmetics - but that's just cosmetics.

    I like thumbholes (and thumbslots) - so this feature appeals to me and for that simple reason, it is preferable to the Sebbie. The Sebbie has one of the better stud designs, but I still don't like thumbstuds much.

    The assymetric handle material choice is interesting, and I could no see any problems with it.

    Blade finger choil design on SnG is another favorite design feature. I have always loved the Spyderco Native, and the SnG is quite similar. In fact - if I could get a framelock Syderco Native with 1/2 inch longer blade - we would be talking some serious competition.

    The SnG clip design is an improvement over the Sebbie clip design. I have posted on this point a number of times, so I won't repeat my whining here.

    Quality Control - I have no phucking idea. The character of these two designs is different enough that a direct comparison is difficult for me. I am not as anal retentive as some - so I am not the best person to comment on this. Neither one is a clean and crisp as some of my handmade knives - so I don't expect the pinnacle on this issue.

    Overall - I would grab for the SnG if it had a longer blade and a shallower handle profile. I think that a Large Classic Sebbie with Leather Inlay is a very good choice as well - but I really don't like the clip and would prefer more of a true drop point design.

    Out.
     
  11. Kshurika

    Kshurika

    77
    Jul 12, 2001
    Hmmmmmmmmmm. That's a great idea.... an SnG with a longer blade. Well, I guess until they come up with something like that, I'll just sit here playing with my AR.

    Remember the AR? It's a folder that Strider makes..... with a longer blade.
     
  12. shmoopiebear

    shmoopiebear

    Nov 4, 2002
    To be fair, I had just finished reading all threads on the whole Sebenza debacle. I was able to discover that the owner of the knife had modified it pertaining to the locking mechanism. I don't remember if the CRK warranty covered modifications. Although, I would imagine it could somehow affect the long term performance of the knife. I think the only modifications made to a knife should be prescribed sharpening. Unfortunately, people abuse that privilege, too. It's no wonder companies like Benchmade, Coldsteel... and Strider offer a sharpening service as part of the warranty. What's cool is Strider will replace the paracord wrap, too, although I think anybody nitpicking that warranty has got to be hardcore. I guess I would take advantage of it since I would want it to be done right... even including the sharpening. OBTW, does "re-scenting" come under the warranty of a Strider knife? (o_O) The odor that comes off their knives is just so... manly. *LOL* :D
     
  13. L.O. Little

    L.O. Little

    760
    Dec 28, 2000
    "Remember the AR? It's a folder that Strider makes..... with a longer blade."

    The AR is still my favorite folder. BTW, speaking of longer blades, I guess you guys haven't seen this:
     

    Attached Files:

  14. L.O. Little

    L.O. Little

    760
    Dec 28, 2000
    That's not some Photoshop fake. Mick posted that on the other forum...
     
  15. razorhunter

    razorhunter

    468
    Jan 27, 2002
    I believe my new SNG is as close to a perfect EDC as I have seen. Everthing is great about the blade shape, size, etc.
    I have never even come close to buying an AR/GB due to the blade being too long for legal carry in many areas, and I don't really give a damn about those stupid laws, BUT when it comes down to it, I am more at ease carrying a legal EDC.
    I prayed for YEARS that Strider would come out with a 3.5" or even a 3.25" blade folder. THEY FINALLY DID!!!!!!
    Keep up the good work Mick and IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, PLEASE CONTINUE to produce 3" - 3.5" framelock folders!!!!!!
     
  16. razorhunter

    razorhunter

    468
    Jan 27, 2002
    One more thing....
    As far as the customer service issue,
    CUSTOMER SERVICE RULES... PERIOD....
    The fact that Strider stands behind their products 110% means the world to me. Customer service like this is what creates TRUE LOYALTY in your customers.
     
  17. DgrantD

    DgrantD Banned BANNED

    420
    Oct 21, 2002
    Thats for the links on the sebenza, just another reason to stay away from them, never did care much for them, always seemed like a pusssy folder to me, with the no flicking ****. I know its not good to flick but to make such a big deal out of it is crazy, and charging so much for a repair on a 300 dollar knife is crazy, think Ill stick to my strider instead, and my BM42, I flick that one all day long, no problems.
     
  18. L.O. Little

    L.O. Little

    760
    Dec 28, 2000
    I've had my spearpoint Model 2 SnG for 3 days now. I believe I can give an answer to my own question, "Will the SnG kick Sebenza a**?"

    Yep. First off there's the Strider guarantee. I've never heard of Mick charging anybody to fix their knife. Enough said.

    Second, the most important part of any knife, the blade. The spearpoint SnG blade has a bit less cutting area than that of a large Sebenza blade. It is thicker and stronger. It cuts as well as I remember my old Sebenza cut, which is a high compliment, considering the thickness of the full bevel ground blade, compared to a thinner hollow ground blade.

    Third, ergonomics. No contest, the Sebenza is NOT ergonomic in any way. The SnG, like the AR, BEGS to be held and used.

    Fourth, strength. IMO, the stop pin on the Sebenza isn't as strong as the system used on the SnG. Both are stronger than the need to be, however.

    Fifth, fit and finish. The fit and finish on my numbered (#022) SnG isn't as good as that of an AR or a Sebenza. The later, non-numbered SnGs will probably have better fit and finish. The Sebenza wins.

    Sixth, price. The Sebenza wins.

    Seventh, cool factor. Don't laugh, it's important! The Sebenza is utilitarian. The SnG is COOL!

    The only advantages I see the Sebenza have are price and fit and finish. IMO, the Strider guarantee, the blade, the ergonomics, the strength, the cool factor Make the SnG a better knife than the Sebenza.

    Overall, I think the SnG kicks Sebenza a** all day long!
     
  19. biogon

    biogon

    Jan 2, 2002
    Lynn,

    Agreed on all counts.

    You did forget to mention that the G10 side actually -does- make holding the knife more comfortable than two Ti slabs.

    Weird, but true.

    -j
     
  20. L.O. Little

    L.O. Little

    760
    Dec 28, 2000
    "You did forget to mention that the G10 side actually -does- make holding the knife more comfortable than two Ti slabs."

    Very good point.
     

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