Super Glue as First Aid

[DFW_Dave]

Steristrips don't hold well on their own, so use a skin adhesive called Mastisol applied to the skin around the wound.

good to know :thumbup:

 

[hlee]

Originally posted by Voctory
"Waste of money, dermabond is cyanoacrylate, otherwise known as super glue. The minor chemical differences make dermabond a little more flexable. When you add the letters USP to anything it immediately costs 20 times more. Unless you can bill an insurance company for it, not worth it for feild expedient medical care."


Victory, you are obviously not a pharmaceutical chemist. Neither am I, however I am a biochemist, and I do know that chemically identical species that differ only in the orientatin of atoms relative to each other (called isomers) can have vastly different chemical properties. The difference between ethyl- butyl- and octyl cyanoacrylates is not in the minor changes in the additive chemicals, but in the cyanoacrylate species themselves. The prefixes ethyl, butyl, and octyl denote the number of carbon atoms in a sidechain of the cyanoacrylate molecules. While they are all cyanoacrylates, they are not the same. By the dermabond. If you are putting together a preparedness kit, you may as well have the stuff designed to do what you want it to do. The few extra bucks you spend on the "real deal" will never be missed when your life is on the line. Your position that all cyanoacrylates are the same is like saying that mastifs are the same as toy poodles because they are both dogs.

 

[diceman]

But we can all just agree that given an emergency situation, the chemical makeup of the superglue doesn't really matter right? Given the choice between using regular super glue or bleeding out... I'll take the glue?

 

[4W4K3]

My GF has soem stuff at her house called "Liquid Band-Aid". Basically, medically approved superglue as far as I can tell. You jsut spread it on and it closes up most anything small.

 

[T-BAG]

Clean the wound first, of course. If you don't have any saline or clean water, pee on it. Urine is sterile. Don't apply alcohol or betadine solutions on large open wounds. They will destroy the exposed tissue.

Honest officer.....I had this cut on my cheek and was just trying to pee on it to make it sterile when the Super Glue took hold and put me in this awkward position.....Please stop laughing and call an ambulance.

 

[4W4K3]

Ew. I think I'd rather get a mild infection! I get cuts everyday at work usually on my hands and forearms. They almost always get infected, and turn kind of yellow for a few days, scar up, and go away. That's how I always get scars. If it doesn't get infected, I almost never have a scar afterwards. So I shoot for infections

haha

 

[victory]

Originally posted by Voctory
"Waste of money, dermabond is cyanoacrylate, otherwise known as super glue. The minor chemical differences make dermabond a little more flexable. When you add the letters USP to anything it immediately costs 20 times more. Unless you can bill an insurance company for it, not worth it for feild expedient medical care."


Victory, you are obviously not a pharmaceutical chemist. Neither am I, however I am a biochemist, and I do know that chemically identical species that differ only in the orientatin of atoms relative to each other (called isomers) can have vastly different chemical properties. The difference between ethyl- butyl- and octyl cyanoacrylates is not in the minor changes in the additive chemicals, but in the cyanoacrylate species themselves. The prefixes ethyl, butyl, and octyl denote the number of carbon atoms in a sidechain of the cyanoacrylate molecules. While they are all cyanoacrylates, they are not the same. By the dermabond. If you are putting together a preparedness kit, you may as well have the stuff designed to do what you want it to do. The few extra bucks you spend on the "real deal" will never be missed when your life is on the line. Your position that all cyanoacrylates are the same is like saying that mastifs are the same as toy poodles because they are both dogs.

Here's the real test. I've used dermabond, i've used superglue. The only noticable difference is dermabond is slightly more flexable and instead of costing $2 for a tube that can be used dozens of times, it costs $50 for a single use applicator. Few extra bucks my ass. And don't get all dramatic on me saying i'll regret it when my life is on the line because you don't know what your talking about. They both work fine for the purpose we're discussing. I'm no chemist, but you're no medic.

 

[diceman]

$50 for a single use? Wow. I can get regular super glue for $0.20 a tube in a 5 pack at the dollar store...

 

[digdeep]

Just to let you know - superglue will sting like hell but will suffice in an emergency situation. Agree with previous posters that entire wound should not be sealed - allow for cleansing and bandaging.

 

[hlee]

Yeah, dermabond is expensive, just over $20 per application. It is a hospital treatment, of couse it is expensive. Our insurance premiums hard at work. Someone on the gadgets forum is asking for suggestions for no limit goodie bags for ER docs paid for by the hospital, again our insurance premiums hard at work.

Band-Aid brand Liquid Bandage- Based upon Dermabond Hospital Tech.
http://www.bandaid.com/liquid_bandage.shtml

Buy Band-Aid brand Liquid Bandage ($6.99 for 10 apps)
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=74410&catid=44601&aid=336064&aparam=xsp135917
Still more expensive than superglue, but it is purpose built.

I may not be a medic, but I can do an internet search.

If you are in an emergency situation and only have superglue on hand, then by all means use the superglue if it is that or bleeding out. If you are making a emergency preparedness kit, buy the stuff designed to do what you want it to do.

 

[victory]

Yeah, dermabond is expensive, just over $20 per application. It is a hospital treatment, of couse it is expensive. Our insurance premiums hard at work. Someone on the gadgets forum is asking for suggestions for no limit goodie bags for ER docs paid for by the hospital, again our insurance premiums hard at work.

Band-Aid brand Liquid Bandage- Based upon Dermabond Hospital Tech.
http://www.bandaid.com/liquid_bandage.shtml

Buy Band-Aid brand Liquid Bandage ($6.99 for 10 apps)
http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=74410&catid=44601&aid=336064&aparam=xsp135917
Still more expensive than superglue, but it is purpose built.

I may not be a medic, but I can do an internet search.

If you are in an emergency situation and only have superglue on hand, then by all means use the superglue if it is that or bleeding out. If you are making a emergency preparedness kit, buy the stuff designed to do what you want it to do.

Cheapest i've seen dermabond is approximately $35/applicator, but only if you buy a 12 pack.

Bandaid liquid bandage is formulated differently than dermabond and does not work well as a suture alternative. It's not nearly as strong to prevent people from gluing themselves to themselves. The band-aid liquid bandage is still expensive for the amount you're getting

If your bleeding out, you shouldn't be trying to glue or stitch yourself back togeather, you should be trying to stop the bleeding. Stop dispensing the medical advice.

 

[LSkylizard]

...If your bleeding out, you shouldn't be trying to glue or stitch yourself back togeather, you should be trying to stop the bleeding. Stop dispensing the medical advice...

Neither derma-bond, nor crazy glue is intended nor do they function for the purpose of stopping someone from "bleeding-out".

Most treatments (i.e. glues, sutures, staples, etc...) used to approximate the edges of a wound (deep or shallow) best serve to increase the rate of healing and diminish the width of the scar...presuming used properly, under proper conditions, with proper wound types. Edge approximation can and does provide some degree of hemostasis and/or tamponade. But, gluing the skin togather over a deep hemorrhaging gash is generally not going to stop "bleeding-out"... but direct pressure might be a very good/sensible/reasonable/educated idea

 

[LSkylizard]

I have said it before and will say it again...then withdraw from any further baited debate:

1. It is instinct if not human nature to want to be able to do something, anything, but to try
2. It is human nature/ego/pride/etc... to want to believe you can take short cuts based on limited skill/training/experience and a whole lot of camp fire stories.
3. Just because you think of some action to take does not mean you should take the action nor does it mean it is the correct action to take (see item #2).
4. Just because you lack the correct materials/tools/training for a job does not mean you should proceed with the wrong materials/tools/training (see #1,2,&3 above)

 

[kr1]

I have said it before and will say it again...then withdraw from any further baited debate:

1. It is instinct if not human nature to want to be able to do something, anything, but to try
2. It is human nature/ego/pride/etc... to want to believe you can take short cuts based on limited skill/training/experience and a whole lot of camp fire stories.
3. Just because you think of some action to take does not mean you should take the action nor does it mean it is the correct action to take (see item #2).
4. Just because you lack the correct materials/tools/training for a job does not mean you should proceed with the wrong materials/tools/training (see #1,2,&3 above)

I have stayed out of the debate also because I had my say in the other thread on this issue. While I am no where near the medical level of the Doc I will add just one more thing.

5. It is possible to have a good outcome even while doing something incorrectly or unsound. That is not proof that it is a good idea. You probably should just consider yourself lucky that the outcome wasn't bad and never do it again. It certainly does not mean that you or anyone else will be able to get away with it a second or third time.

Saying that, if it is your body you are experimenting on feel free to experiment as you see fit and let us know the results.

KR

 

[LSkylizard]

Got to agree.... I once stated:

... I see extensive wounds days, weeks, and months old before patients arrive for debriedment and or hyperbaric oxygen treatment and/or amputation.

....Any good physician (or healthcare provider) knows that ultimately the individual will heal (if they heal) in spite of what we do and rarely is it the case that the patient heals as a direct result of what we do. The best a medic or physician can do in wound care is optimize the healing environment. This means removing dead tissue, removing foreign material, and copiously irrigating to decrease the bacteria load in a manner that does NOT leave irritated or shocked tissues.

...Just because some survivalist have succeeded using interesting methods does NOT mean it actually applies to the entire world. It simply means they got lucky and their body could tolerate more of an insult.

I stand by that...