Survive knives forum should be closed

[danbot]

Excuses? I stated facts in response to your post.

We aren't making one knife at a time, we do large production runs of one model at a time. So no, we don't have all of the handles and sheaths for every model completed all at once. But, as I mentioned, both of the 2 remaining Starter Campaign models are being worked on right now. If you want more details, go to our subforum, instagram, or sign up for our newsletter.

I said "One of our past providers had let Guy know to expect that 30% of every production run wouldn’t be good." I think the important words you missed there are 'past providers'. We thought 30% seemed like a lot too, so we changed things up. We uprooted our lives to get closer to a new vendor in order to improve efficiency as much as possible.

You just posted several quotes from me taking personal responsibility. We have definitely made some bad calls in the past. If there was a magic fix it button I would have been smashing that things down ages ago. We don't enjoy being this behind or disappointing customers. The solution is to keep working on fulfilling orders, which is exactly what we are doing.



I didn't say no material for knives, I said we don't have all of the materials for certain production runs. For the 2 runs I was talking about: the GSO-3.5 blades are mostly done and handle materials are in house waiting to be machined and GSO-12 blades are cut out and heading to heat treat. For all other models: we have steel for every order that has been placed. With our recent move and changes, we have taken over ordering handle materials so we are working on getting stocked up on those sheets as well.

Sounds like you need to hire a production planner that knows what they're doing. "Start up" orders should have been top priority long ago.
No one here wants to see you fail, but the longer this goes on, the more it looks like you deserve to fail. Long term disappointment of customers is a dangerous game for any business.

 

[craytab]

Excuses? I stated facts in response to your post.

We aren't making one knife at a time, we do large production runs of one model at a time. So no, we don't have all of the handles and sheaths for every model completed all at once. But, as I mentioned, both of the 2 remaining Starter Campaign models are being worked on right now. If you want more details, go to our subforum, instagram, or sign up for our newsletter.

I said "One of our past providers had let Guy know to expect that 30% of every production run wouldn’t be good." I think the important words you missed there are 'past providers'. We thought 30% seemed like a lot too, so we changed things up. We uprooted our lives to get closer to a new vendor in order to improve efficiency as much as possible.

You just posted several quotes from me taking personal responsibility. We have definitely made some bad calls in the past. If there was a magic fix it button I would have been smashing that things down ages ago. We don't enjoy being this behind or disappointing customers. The solution is to keep working on fulfilling orders, which is exactly what we are doing.



I didn't say no material for knives, I said we don't have all of the materials for certain production runs. For the 2 runs I was talking about: the GSO-3.5 blades are mostly done and handle materials are in house waiting to be machined and GSO-12 blades are cut out and heading to heat treat. For all other models: we have steel for every order that has been placed. With our recent move and changes, we have taken over ordering handle materials so we are working on getting stocked up on those sheets as well.

You said you don't have materials for orders that are 3 years old. Please explain.

 

[Quiet]

Wow, every single excuse Ellie has regurgitated for years, and she's in here doing it again. Survive?Knives are a bunch of scammers, and should be kicked out of here. Oh, those knives from 2015 that haven't been done yet? Good money says that we're going to see a new sale any day now on some other model, so they can take that pre-sale money and actually go make and make those other knives. This company has the poorest business practices I've ever seen in the knife world from a company still trying to pass itself off as legitimate. Taking peoples' money so they can pay their bills and buy materials to fulfill previous orders is absolutely a sham, and they need to be kicked out of here.

Ellie, don't bother replying, because I'm not reading a huge wall of text that will essentially be rehashing what you've already claimed before. Your ACTIONS speak volumes more than your continued handwringing does.

You guys need to go.

I mean, seriously. You freely admit here that you have orders left unfulfilled from three years ago and yet you've somehow managed to sell other models, and some folks (those who didn't get tired of your lies and demand a refund) actually got those knives...BEFORE people who have been waiting for three years. The gall of that, and the fact that you people don't even acknowledge it absolutely stuns me.

 

[Quiet]

Sounds like you need to hire a production planner that knows what they're doing. "Start up" orders should have been top priority long ago.
No one here wants to see you fail, but the longer this goes on, the more it looks like you deserve to fail. Long term disappointment of customers is a dangerous game for any business.

Well, since they pay their bills and eat from the infusions of cash each presale generates, I sincerely doubt they have the money to actually hire anyone else.

 

[danbot]

Well, since they pay their bills and eat from the infusions of cash each presale generates, I sincerely doubt they have the money to actually hire anyone else.

They could keep promising to pay really soon...

 

[shinyedges]

Exactly.


Why not have the people milling the handle scales make scales for the knives you sold 3 years ago but never delivered?

Can't afford micarta? Don't care? Don't have time to machine them or have someone ELSE machine them?

It is essentially spitting in customers faces who paid them upfront and help them get started.


I suggest survive! Not sell a single knife until they make good on every starter knife they sold and reneged on. Unbelievable they are allowed to continue selling knives here when they owe people knives from years ago.

 

[Quiet]

Right, I'm sure. " being worked on" add that to the laundry list of "facts (aka excuses)" that are easily found.


It's simple, give people their knives or come up with another excuse on why it's 3 years late... Which one did you do?

I'm dying to know how you can presale a "second" that isn't even made?

Why is new models a priority over paid in full customers?

Let me get this straight, people paid you for a knife, you then took their money and switched to making other models? Yeah.... Explain that one?

Because they needed to buy groceries.

 

[SURVIVE! Ellie]

It's simple, give people their knives or come up with another excuse on why it's 3 years late... Which one did you do?

We are doing both. Fulfilling orders and letting people know why there have been delays.

I'm dying to know how you can presale a "second" that isn't even made?

The Factory 2nds are finished blades that have something wrong with them aesthetically. They still need to be built to customers’ specifications before they are sharpened and shipped. Other than the orders needing to be built there has never been a “preorder” or “presale” for Factory 2nds.

Why is new models a priority over paid in full customers?

There are not new models that are a priority over paid in full customers. We listed 7 models during the Starter Campaign and stated that those would get worked on in order of how popular each model was. There are 2 that are nearing the end of production, 2 that we are just finishing up fulfilling starter orders for, and the other 3 are completed.

Let me get this straight, people paid you for a knife, you then took their money and switched to making other models? Yeah.... Explain that one?

There has been no switch to making other models. We are doing exactly what we said we would do by producing models in the order that we specified we would. It has been taking longer than expected, we should not have offered that many models all at once, lesson learned.

Why not have the people milling the handle scales make scales for the knives you sold 3 years ago but never delivered?

That is exactly what is happening.

I “regurgitate” because people regurgitate. You say the same things, then I say the same things, then you say the same things….

Ultimately this thread is about if SURVIVE! should still have a subforum on here. I feel that because we are still making knives, fulfilling orders, replying to customers, posting weekly Instagram updates, and emailing monthly newsletters that there is no reason to remove our subforum. I'm guessing you still disagree and want it removed. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it up to Kevin.

 

[SpySmasher]

shinyedges Having read all of this thread (which is admittedly a job in itself) I think you're doing this community a service here.

 

[shinyedges]

We are doing both. Fulfilling orders and letting people know why there have been delays.



The Factory 2nds are finished blades that have something wrong with them aesthetically. They still need to be built to customers’ specifications before they are sharpened and shipped. Other than the orders needing to be built there has never been a “preorder” or “presale” for Factory 2nds.



There are not new models that are a priority over paid in full customers. We listed 7 models during the Starter Campaign and stated that those would get worked on in order of how popular each model was. There are 2 that are nearing the end of production, 2 that we are just finishing up fulfilling starter orders for, and the other 3 are completed.




There has been no switch to making other models. We are doing exactly what we said we would do by producing models in the order that we specified we would. It has been taking longer than expected, we should not have offered that many models all at once, lesson learned.


That is exactly what is happening.

I “regurgitate” because people regurgitate. You say the same things, then I say the same things, then you say the same things….

Ultimately this thread is about if SURVIVE! should still have a subforum on here. I feel that because we are still making knives, fulfilling orders, replying to customers, posting weekly Instagram updates, and emailing monthly newsletters that there is no reason to remove our subforum. I'm guessing you still disagree and want it removed. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it up to Kevin.

You flat out lied. Period.

You never stated Anywhere, that it would take 3+ years to get their knife. As a matter of fact, after members of this forum called your gross misrepresentation of the timeline out, you changed the wording.

You sold knives for a long time with the time frame of 90 days on your website. Yes, I know it also said it could go over 90 days. Problem is you KNEW it would take nearly 10x your 90 day wording. That's being dishonest.


Regarding the topic of seconds, at what point do you know how many seconds you have? Right after they are cut? After they are ground? Who is causing all these "seconds" and "ugly betties" (thirds)?

In manufacturing, if there is a problem causing copious amounts of defects, we make a CHANGE. Some how, you have an unbelievable amount of "cosmetically defective" knives. What a coincidence that you sell them before the people who bought knives and helped you start this operation get THEIR knives.


You don't deserve to be here. Go ahead, type another long winded excuse 99% of members here see right through you.

Even if Kevin allows you to stay, your reputation is garbage, and you've drug your own brand through the mud. Many of us will let everyone we know how you shafted people for years. Shameful.


Yeah, yeah we know, you're doing exactly as you said.... Right?

 

[1234]

This might sound a bit harsh, sorry for that in advance, having followed this story for years now, I have come to the conclusion,
its either a matter of poor business sense, or a scam, neither is good for our community.

The amount of times I have read how people have been trying to help them out by telling them that their business model
is bad & that they should change it, and them not listening, is quite remarkable.



1234,,,,

 

[danbot]

Our oldest orders right now are from March 2015 when we did the SURVIVE! Starter campaign. More than 80% of the original Starter orders have been completed. The only remaining orders from that promotion are for models that we do not have all of the materials for yet, though they are both in production (see our newsletters and/or Instagram for GSO-3.5 and GSO-12 updates).

Why wouldn't you offer these customers alternative materials that you do have (or are readily obtainable) to get them fulfilled and off your books? People wondering when they will get their years in the making knives while you are selling new models and custom building seconds for new customers makes you look very shady.

 

[Pilsner]

Any company where customers are waiting YEARS for products, having laid out THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, has no place in a respectable community. Get lost, Survive. Your time has come.

 

[Cougar Allen]

We do not and have never purposely “produced” Factory 2nds or Ugly Betty blades. They are things we have come across as we are working on fulfilling our regular preorders. One of our past providers had let Guy know to expect that 30% of every production run wouldn’t be good, so those are part of that.

Who is this provider who has a 30% rejection rate for every production run?

The whole industry wants to know....

Most customers are happy with our customer service because we answer every call and email promptly and with respect. We’ve also issued every refund that has been requested.

Where did you get that statistic?

Are you counting everyone who has paid you money as a customer, or only those you have provided with the knives they paid for?

 

[Pilsner]

Who is this provider who has a 30% rejection rate for every production run?

The whole industry wants to know....



Where did you get that statistic?

Are you counting everyone who has paid you money as a customer, or only those you have provided with the knives they paid for?

Yes, who IS this provider? It sounds fairly appalling to me. Why on earth would ANYONE go along with that?

This whole thing may have started out with good intentions, possibly, but it is now nothing more than a scam. For shame, for shame.

 

[Planterz]

Custom makers and craftsmen in the past have been banned for false promises and taking money for knives that don't get delivered. Yet Survive! still has their own forum here. This reflects badly on bladeforums as well has honest makers and companies that have presence here. That's how I see things.

 

[Boru13]

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it up to Kevin.

Whether Kevin lets you stay or not, personally I think it's irrelevant now.

Your reputation on BF's that you have earned over the past few years speaks for itself.

If you were a individual maker conducting business the way SURVIVE has, you would have been banned along time ago.

 

[Rupestris]

A past provider let Guy know that 30% would be unacceptable?



Has your current supplier let Guy know what their failure rate is?

 

[danbot]

Sounds like a provider that decided they didn't want the job.

 

[Benson X]

The Factory 2nds are finished blades that have something wrong with them aesthetically. They still need to be built to customers’ specifications before they are sharpened and shipped. Other than the orders needing to be built there has never been a “preorder” or “presale” for Factory 2nds.

I've been a patient consumer - and have previously defended and lauded S!K for their efforts to get their operation streamlined (referring to the big announcement last year when they partnered with Millit). I have about $1,300 in "pre-orders" from S!K that were paid for (in full) over a year ago. Now, I have no doubt that I will eventually get my knives, nor do I doubt S!K is still working to fulfill all the orders that are in-process.

BUT, your comment/response above has me confused.

I ordered Survive! 7/7 (Factory 2nd) in June, 2017. That was over 13 months ago. On the Order Confirmation email I received and also the Ts & Cs that I agreed to on your website order form stated (verbatim) "I understand that this item will take up to 90 days for delivery."

Taking into consideration what you've stated above:

• The 7/7 Blades were already cut, machined, and heat-treated
• (somewhere around) 30% of those nearly-finished blades were determined to be "Factory 2nds" and made available to order on your site as such.
• Those "Factory 2nds" that were available back in June, 2017 (that I ordered) must have been about 90% along in the production stage in order to determine they are "2nds", correct? That would mean they just need an edge put on and scales attached and shipped out.

Based on the info. above, I am pretty curious why it would take 13+ Months to put an edge on a blade and attach scales? Are you just sitting on them until Regular/Pre-Order/Starter Orders (prior to my order) are fulfilled?

I am really just trying to wrap my head around the logistical process here and the order of operations.