swag tip
- Thread starter slow1
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I've never heard that term used before, but I can tell you that it would almost definitely be illegal.
Of course, the Chinook's handle coverage just begs you to do this. If it makes you feel any better, the knife is still a mean backcutter even with only one sharpened side.
Of course, the Chinook's handle coverage just begs you to do this. If it makes you feel any better, the knife is still a mean backcutter even with only one sharpened side.
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I believe the correct term is "swedge" - refers to the "top" of a bowie-style or clip point blade- especially when sharpened. Putting a functional edge on the Chinook would make it scarier & maybe put you in hot water if the wrong folks decided to make an issue of it.
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My understanding of the word "swedge" is a bit different from Rugger's. I have understood the word to mean a grind area from the spine to the tip, specifically NOT sharpened.
Usually, with clip points, the angled edge from the spine to the point is called a false edge, whether or not it is sharpened. When the false edge is sharpened, the form is often called a "double grind."
Of course, your mileage may vary, and Rugger may well be correct. I do agree with him that JVC may have been attempting to muddle up our language a bit with his use of the word "swag." To me, that word means the fruits of a robbery or theft of some sort.
According to my copy of Mr. Webster's book, "swage" is a tool used for shaping metal. May be that JVC got hoisted on the petard of the thesaurus in his word processor. (Swedge doesn't appear in my dictionary, but it seems quite reasonable to think that "swedge" probably derived from "swage."
Ah, semantics.
Usually, with clip points, the angled edge from the spine to the point is called a false edge, whether or not it is sharpened. When the false edge is sharpened, the form is often called a "double grind."
Of course, your mileage may vary, and Rugger may well be correct. I do agree with him that JVC may have been attempting to muddle up our language a bit with his use of the word "swag." To me, that word means the fruits of a robbery or theft of some sort.
According to my copy of Mr. Webster's book, "swage" is a tool used for shaping metal. May be that JVC got hoisted on the petard of the thesaurus in his word processor. (Swedge doesn't appear in my dictionary, but it seems quite reasonable to think that "swedge" probably derived from "swage."
Ah, semantics.
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The term "swag tip" is a bit puzzling. I haven't heard it before, but I'd also guess that it has something to do with the word "swage".
As Bugs pointed out, "swedge" is a variation of "swage". A swage is a forging tool that's used in pairs to make the swedge on a blade. The bottom swage is secured into the anvil and the top swage gets hammered. A swedge isn't sharp, but a false edge is.
"False edge" is an old sword term. The false edge is a sharp back edge that doesn't run the whole length of blade; hence, it's also sometimes refered to as the "short edge". It is distinguished from the "true edge", or the main edge of the blade, which stays sharp all the way to the ricasso, or shoulder, or whatever. The true edge is also called the "long edge".
"Double ground", to me at least, means that there a two primary grinds that are roughly the same width and length, so the blade shape would be symmetrical, or close to it. The stereotypical dagger blade is double ground. I don't think that double ground blades must necessarily be double edged though. "Double edged" refers to two sharp edges that run the full length of the blade.
The basic definitions would be something like this:
Swedge - Beveled area at the spine that doesn't run the whole length of the blade.
Double grind - Beveled area at the spine that does run the whole length of the blade.
False edge - Sharp back edge that doesn't run the whole length of the blade.
Double edge - Sharp back edge that does run the whole length of the blade.
There will be some grey areas though. For instance: If a knife has a bevel that runs the length of the blade, but isn't as wide as the primary grind, is that a swedge or is it double ground? An example of this would be Bob Dozier's Arkansas Toothpick.
But anyways, I sharpened about 5/8ths of an inch of the swedge on my Chinook and I thinks it's great. As for legalities, I personally haven't seen a state law that explicitly outlaws knives with two sharp edges. Some states have laws against "daggers" in some form (usually to carry concealed), but what they mean by that term is anyone's guess as it's rarely defined in the statutes.
As Bugs pointed out, "swedge" is a variation of "swage". A swage is a forging tool that's used in pairs to make the swedge on a blade. The bottom swage is secured into the anvil and the top swage gets hammered. A swedge isn't sharp, but a false edge is.
"False edge" is an old sword term. The false edge is a sharp back edge that doesn't run the whole length of blade; hence, it's also sometimes refered to as the "short edge". It is distinguished from the "true edge", or the main edge of the blade, which stays sharp all the way to the ricasso, or shoulder, or whatever. The true edge is also called the "long edge".
"Double ground", to me at least, means that there a two primary grinds that are roughly the same width and length, so the blade shape would be symmetrical, or close to it. The stereotypical dagger blade is double ground. I don't think that double ground blades must necessarily be double edged though. "Double edged" refers to two sharp edges that run the full length of the blade.
The basic definitions would be something like this:
Swedge - Beveled area at the spine that doesn't run the whole length of the blade.
Double grind - Beveled area at the spine that does run the whole length of the blade.
False edge - Sharp back edge that doesn't run the whole length of the blade.
Double edge - Sharp back edge that does run the whole length of the blade.
There will be some grey areas though. For instance: If a knife has a bevel that runs the length of the blade, but isn't as wide as the primary grind, is that a swedge or is it double ground? An example of this would be Bob Dozier's Arkansas Toothpick.
But anyways, I sharpened about 5/8ths of an inch of the swedge on my Chinook and I thinks it's great. As for legalities, I personally haven't seen a state law that explicitly outlaws knives with two sharp edges. Some states have laws against "daggers" in some form (usually to carry concealed), but what they mean by that term is anyone's guess as it's rarely defined in the statutes.
I was also confused by the term "swag" and assumed that the author of this article meant "swedge".
In California, a knife with both sides sharpened is definitely illegal. The law in question does not specifically address what length of sharpening constitutes an "edge"
I currently have a Chinook heading my way. Can't wait to try it out.
In California, a knife with both sides sharpened is definitely illegal. The law in question does not specifically address what length of sharpening constitutes an "edge"
I currently have a Chinook heading my way. Can't wait to try it out.
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Hmmm... could you point out the law in question? That sounds very interesting. It was my understanding that CA state law doesn't explicitly outlaw double edged knives, but instead makes it illegal to carry a concealed dagger. The definition of "dagger" has changed several times in CA, but it currently means any fixed blade knife. A Chinook with a false edge should therefore be legal under state law. At least that's my take on it, anyway.
The important section of the CA Penal Code:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12020-12040.html
A summary of CA knife laws at Bernard Levine's great site:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt
"Is this a dagger which I see before me?" - Great stuff from the late J.K.M.:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jkmtsm/knifelaw.html