Swimming

2

2REDUCK

Joined
Feb 27, 2000
Messages
40
This isn't knife or gun related but.....

It seems like very few people have good swimming skills so I have always been curious what the swim training is like for Navy SEALs. Do most men who become SEALs enter the training as very strong swimmers or do they pick up the skills along the way (sink or swim....:p ) I work at a fitness facility with a pool and even the good swimmers usually can't swim more than 200 yards. I am always looking for more tricks of the trade.... Do you have any swimming advice?
 
200 yards?! What does that translate to in mileage? I'm 36 and work out regularly, rowing, dancing, fencing, swimming, weights, etc...and on my slower days I do 36 laps which equals out to 1/2 mile...used to go for the 72 laps = 1 mile...I gotta think (getting my daughter ready for bed right now so conversions are the last thing on my mind) what that equals to...anyway, I'm not on the YMCA Masters team or anything- I'm in and out in 45 minutes (do a lot of kickboard work and such) and they're still swimming laps...and they do 2 laps for every 1 lap that we non-amphibians swim...I know that one of the guys was in some 'special' military unit- he didn't talk much, but he did say that the type of training used in swimming laps and competitions is quite different from the training for military water-work...compared it to marathon runners and sprinters. I know that those guys learn all the techniques for proper treading of water and how to conserve heat, beyond that I'm not sure what their ability is coming into something like SEALs training- maybe an ocean lifeguard would have somewhat of an advantage, I dunno about the typical swimmer though- we're just stroking along, minimal body contact (unless you see a cutie in the next lane!)...
 
You are right, 200 yards isn't very far. A typical pool is 25 yards wide so that is 8 widths of the pool. Even though this isn't very far most of the swimmers that I see would have a hard time going that far without stopping. Now I am not talking about Masters swimmers...they are usually VERY good swimmers but the typical man or woman who can swim (and there are a lot out there who can't at all) doesn't have an efficient enough stroke to go very far. I see a lot of swimmers where I work and it doesn't seem like many people have been exposed to the swim instruction that would enable them to swim for a mile or so that might be expected of a SEAL (maybe?). That is why I am curious if the Navy does some intensive swim training for the SEAL recruits or if they are expected to already be excellent swimmers.
 
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:iOC27-FbcL8:www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/personnel/seals/sealbuds.html+SEAL+warning+order&hl=en

its not up anymore, but google has it cached.
thats the BUD/S warning order. as you can see, phase 1 curretnly requires a 50 meter underwater swim, and a bunch of timed swim evolutions. i'm not sure if thats AFTER the first phase. i don't see any pre-BUD/S criteria.

also, it would seem as if thats all with fins, which, not to say it makes it easier, but would attenuate your disadvantage if you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of different strokes (whatchu talkin' 'bout, willis?)

as far as training- on the bottom of the warning order, theres a suggested training schedule to follow.

*Note: If you have no access to a pool, ride a bicycle for twice as long as
you would swim. If you do have access to a pool, swim everyday available.
Four to five days a week and 200 meters in one session is your initial workup goal.
Also, you want to develop your sidestroke on both the left and right side.
Try to swim 50 meters in one minute or less.
Click to expand...
so apparently 200 meters is a respectable goal... (200 meters = 218 yards) for the first section anyway


i'm out of shape, but one day (some time after i'm done with my degree, and hopefully gainfully employed), i'm gonna try to work myself up to following that guideline. until then, i'm swamped with schoolwork :(
 
hey whoops, looks like there *is* a screening test. i just couldn't find info on it before:

from http://www.sealchallenge.navy.mil/Iwanttobeaseal.htm

This is a standardized test, so ensure that you do NOT rearrange the exercises.

500 yard swim using breast and/or sidestroke in 12.5 minutes
10 minute rest
Perform a minimum of 42 push-ups in 2 minutes
2 minute rest
Perform a minimum of 50 sit-ups in 2 minutes
2 minute rest
Perform a minimum of 6 pull-ups (there is no time limit)
10 minute rest
Run 1.5 miles wearing boots and long pants in 11.5 minutes
Click to expand...

200 yards isn't sounding like a lot anymore :)
 
Good question. The breaststroke and sidestroke do seem to be more adaptable to open water, with waves, inclement weather, etc.

I'm an old, half-over-the-hill fart, and I'm sure I could do ten laps of a large pool, although not blindingly fast or anything. I use breaststroke mostly, keeping my head up above water all the time (I don't like to dip it in as competitive swimmers do).

The sidestroke seems well adapted to pulling gear or wounded buddies, etc.

This is interesting, and I hope CJ will explain more about "combat swimming."

Karl
 
Originally posted by 2REDUCK
I work at a fitness facility with a pool and even the good swimmers usually can't swim more than 200 yards. I am always looking for more tricks of the trade.... Do you have any swimming advice?
Click to expand...

If they can't swim more than 200 yards they aren't very good swimmers. When I was a kid and swam competitively the senior team (13-18) swam 3.5 - 5 k per workout (1.5 - 2 hours). We had a timed 3k swim and a timed 5k swim every year as well. Of course this was all pool work.

As for advice, that depends on what you want. For endurance you just have to swim, a lot. Learn to strike a pace and maintain it, accelerating is really tiring. For open water practice head up strokes - side stroke and head up breast stroke. If you need to get somewhere in a hurry then a head up crawl, or a combo of head up/head down crawl. For an example of a head up crawl think water polo.

For "tactical" type situations practice in full clothing - boots/shoes, socks, pants, shirt, jacket - the lot. Start in shallow water because the drag of all this crap is alarming. Practice taking footwear off, particularly heavy boots. Don't take it off if you don't need to though.

For survival type stuff, that depends on water temperature. If you're in cold water, you'll get hypothermic extremely quickly so heat and energy conservation are key. Hopefully you've got something warm on, keep it on. Keep your head out of the water - water sucks heat away much faster than air. If you've got a lifejacket or PFD on you've got a much better chance of survival, learn the "survival pose" - curl up in a ball and keep your armpits and groin covered. The major heat loss areas are head, armpits, groin. If you don't have a PFD or lifejacket, you can also remove your pants, tie knots in the legs, and fill them with air by striking the water with them - this may give you some flotation but you lose a lot of heat this way.

It's not the SEALs but it's a start.

Pierre
 
I don't consider myself a great swimmer, but I usually average about 60-80 laps when I swim, which is usually about 2-3 days per week. Most of the hardcore swimmers where I swim (and these consist of some 75 year old men and women) will swim about 80-120 laps per session. I talked to one guy who was about 70 and he told me that he averages a distance of about 120 laps per day, 6 days per week. He said that he lives in Hawaii and that he swims in the ocean. He was lapping me easily. I am a slow swimmer (about 40 minutes per mile) and he was probably going twice my speed, nonstop. 50 meters/yards is a good distance to swim underwater; that's tough. But just for a regular swim, it's nothing.
 
I was an ocean lifeguard a few years back, and from my experience (I'm not what you would call a Master Swimmer), good cardiovascular (where the hell did I get that big word from) fitness is 90% of the battle. Anyone can learn the proper mechanics once you are physically fit. As for SEALs, they are extremely motivated, so when their instructor says "Do this NOW", they do it. You can bet that they will be trained in proper swim mechanics if they don't already have them. Of course, swimming a mile does take a better than basic knowledge of swim strokes, not to mention a good set of lungs.
 
An Irishman once told me
"If you want to swim in the cold, keep your head dry."
Then he went talking about his dog.
 
2Redduck,
In response to your question one does not have to be a distance swimmer prior to testing for BUD/S. The training for frogmen centralizes around the mind then the body. This training is not so obvious as one would think but the result is what is important. Both the mind and body are gradually built up to the final 6-mile open ocean swim. On that day if you are lucky you will be with the current otherwise it is a longer day.
To this day I still feel that I could swim around the world if I had too, but I wouldn’t mind the current being with me!
 
"6-mile open ocean swim". Wow; that's a lot. I always wondered how much the Seals swim; I guess now I have my answer. Mr. Caracci: Was there a minimum time for the swim? What was/is the average time for this swim? Do you guys have to do it in full clothing, can you wear eye goggles, etc. (in other words, what are some of the conditions involved in the swim? Do you get to rest afterwards? I take it you had been swimming for many years previous to this in order to be able to hit 6 miles?
 
In my class this swim was done with wetsuit top, hood and fins. There is no minimum time but there is a maximum if a class is swimming against a monster current. I think that was about 4-6 hours. I do not remember how long it took me to swim it. I was about average when it came to time, endurance well that was a different story both running and swimming. I will tell you that when I finished I was not spent, I could have kept swimming. As I remember it was becoming a landlubber again that caused the problem. After being in the water that long your equilibrium is a little different and it took a while to be able to walk normally. So there we were a bunch of tadpoles on the beach feeling a bit like beached whales.
Now my brother he is built different than me he is shorter and stocky, he is an incredible swimmer and almost left a wake in the water. When he was doing his 6-miler he was scared silly by a seal that decided to swim upside down with him about a foot from the surface. He told me he just felt odd than he looked underwater and there he was, the little critter on his back just swimming along funning with my brother. If you ever saw anybody walk on water that was as close as my brother has ever gotten, that is until he realized it was a seal.
My brother started his Navy Career a year ahead of me with UDT-11. He has got a lot of stories of stuff in the water, he even locked into a submarine once with a sea snake. That’s another story.
 
Someone told me a story once. I would love to find out how true it is. Story goes that a bunch of SEALs were dropped way offshore at night near San Diego. They were supposed to swim (with fins) back to shore several hours later. Two guys supposedly got disoriented. A day or so later, they called in from Ensenada or Rosarito or somewhere down that way. M A N L Y men.

Regarding swimming, I competed when I was younger (free & fly up to 200m). Sometimes we'd train with t-shirts on. That was hard enough, I can't imagine full gear or clothes. A friend of mine once saw Matt Biondi working out at Cal (Berkeley). He said that, in cruising-mode, Biondi was covering one length of the pool (25m) in just SIX or SEVEN strokes. Jeezus.
 
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