Talk to me about milling machines

REK Knives

REK Knives

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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Apr 3, 2011
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Gearing up to buy one by the end of the year (need the tax write off!!)

I think I will be going w/ Grizzly as I have been very happy w/ my blast cabinet purchased from them, and they seem the best bang for the buck.

That being said I'm considering this machine, I am wondering if it is heavy duty enough to handle whatever I will throw at it as a knife maker:
  • Blade fullers (what about in hardened steel w/ a carbide bit?)
  • Titanium milling
  • Whatever else is hard for a small milling machine
I was wanting something w/ a tray underneath and a DRO would be nice but not needed (I am aiming for high precision though). Considering this mill, thoughts? It looks on the lighter side weight wise but not sure if/how much that matters.
 
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that woudl do just about anyknife making thing you need. some things you woul dneed to take slow tho and it will use cutters faster then a full size mill due to vibration. i have a mini mill and a bridgeport and still use the mini more often. when its time to use carbide or to do any kind of large work tho i set up the BP. that mill in picture splits the difference so + and - to it biggest of them all is the + of only haveing one tool taking up space
 
Weight equates to rigidity which is what you want and this will do most everything you encounter in knife making. If you want precision you will need a DRO a 2 axis is bare bones but efficient (shop DRO's at DRO Pros good pricing easy setups). That appears to be a dovetail column which will help keep the spindle in TRAM and I suspect the head tilts?
 
butcher_block said:
that would do just about any knife making thing you need. some things you would need to take slow tho and it will use cutters faster then a full size mill due to vibration. i have a mini mill and a bridgeport and still use the mini more often. when its time to use carbide or to do any kind of large work tho i set up the BP. that mill in picture splits the difference so + and - to it biggest of them all is the + of only having one tool taking up space
Click to expand...

Ok so I would probably be better off saving a little more and getting something a little heavier? I want whatever I get to be able to handle using carbide in hardened blades if the need arises. Do you think this would just dull the carbide faster or would it actually leave chatter marks?

Busto said:
Weight equates to rigidity which is what you want and this will do most everything you encounter in knife making. If you want precision you will need a DRO a 2 axis is bare bones but efficient (shop DRO's at DRO Pros good pricing easy setups). That appears to be a dovetail column which will help keep the spindle in TRAM and I suspect the head tilts?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip... I had just read in the reviews on the same basic machine w/ out the DRO that it is a HUGE pain to install a DRO on this (it was a 4 star review if you scroll down and view all reviews) - do you think that Dro Pros would work better? I definitely don't want to deal with a headache down the road want to 'buy once cry once' on this one.

Yes the head tilts 90° apparently...

There is also a heavier model but it doesn't have a DRO or a stand, both of which I guess I could purchase w/ it if it would really make that much of a difference...
 
That is essentially what I was looking at buying before I found the deal I got on my BP clone.

My biggest concern with most mini mills isn't rigidity or vibration, correct tooling choices, good setups, light doc etc can make up for a lot of that (not all but satisfactory), but with their head and column construction and the inability to tram them square without shimming. Once you got one squared up, it may be good forever, but when you mill a tight fitting guard slot with a head that's only slightly out of tram, you will absolutely know it when you press it on.
 
The R8 is good tooling is cheap and common. Skip MT spindles

I'd get a DRO right away, no installation and it's cheaper as OEM

Check table travel Y especially 5 inches travel isn't much.
2 inch spindle travel isn't much


Also see
http://www.precisionmatthews.com/
Apparently they are Taiwanese instead of Chinese and quality is better supervised.
 
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razor-edge-knives said:
Gearing up to buy one by the end of the year (need the tax write off!!)

I think I will be going w/ Grizzly as I have been very happy w/ my blast cabinet purchased from them, and they seem the best bang for the buck.

That being said I'm considering this machine, I am wondering if it is heavy duty enough to handle whatever I will throw at it as a knife maker:
  • Blade fullers (what about in hardened steel w/ a carbide bit?)
  • Titanium milling
  • Whatever else is hard for a small milling machine
I was wanting something w/ a tray underneath and a DRO would be nice but not needed (I am aiming for high precision though). Considering this mill, thoughts? It looks on the lighter side weight wise but not sure if/how much that matters.

g0759-60a78be63595a3feb0641709f3015c60.jpg
Click to expand...

I have the next smaller machine from this one. It’s great for guards and fullers. I wish I got the one you posted, as the extra rigidity would be helpful to minimize vibration. Mine was a bit underpowered using a 2” carbide face mill on 3v, but everything else I’ve done was fine.
 
Bench top Mills were not meant to remove radical amounts of material in a single pass so DOC is going to be a factor on how much chatter you get. You can use Carbide or Cobalt tooling and knowing speed and feed will help to eliminate most of the finish issues. I don't own a bench top so as far as tramming that spindle I don't know how close you can get it and like Kuraki I have a large BP used model with some of my own upgrades. Yes the DRO Pros are EASY to set up and no issues. I have 3 sets on different equipment and the oldest set is going on 10 years so to say I like the products is a big Yes.
 
How necessary is a DRO up front for what we do?

Keep in mind guys I've never ever used a mill, so I have no clue about all this, that's why I'm asking! But I'm at the point where I'm very limited w/ my ryobi benchtop drill press lol.

I also appreciate all the input - so thanks everyone for that!
 
Busto said:
Bench top Mills were not meant to remove radical amounts of material in a single pass so DOC is going to be a factor on how much chatter you get. You can use Carbide or Cobalt tooling and knowing speed and feed will help to eliminate most of the finish issues. I don't own a bench top so as far as tramming that spindle I don't know how close you can get it and like Kuraki I have a large BP used model with some of my own upgrades. Yes the DRO Pros are EASY to set up and no issues. I have 3 sets on different equipment and the oldest set is going on 10 years so to say I like the products is a big Yes.
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Yes I'm thinking if I got the G0759 pictured in the OP then as long as I controlled DOC most everything would be doable... hard to say w/ out someone chiming in who has one though I guess lol
 
As a retired machinist I can tell you that All machines will tell you what they like...Like Betty over there she gets used a lot cuz she can handle all the rough Sailor language because the operator before you made some set up changes and you didn't check the Tram...So what you are going to find out is that if you push the machine beyond what it likes it will will tell you by the finish you get or the vibration or the whining. Do a little reading on set ups and get some inexpensive tooling you won't mind throwing away when its used up and some cheap Box Store steel and make some chips...

Invest in a Dial "Test" indicator (not just a dial indicator) Brown & Sharpe... or Starrett "Last Word" dial test indicator. I have one of each that have served me over 25 years you will need them for Tramming the head and the Vice and other setups!!!

I read that review and I think the guy was whining about the "Y" axis DRO and attaching it...I've done it a few times so I have practice, but a couple hours and some light hole drilling and you should have no problem...check DRO Pros they have videos of how easy they are to install.
 
12345678910 said:
The R8 is good tooling is cheap and common. Skip MT spindles

I'd get a DRO right away, no installation and it's cheaper as OEM

Check table travel Y especially 5 inches travel isn't much.
2 inch spindle travel isn't much


Also see
http://www.precisionmatthews.com/
Apparently they are Taiwanese instead of Chinese and quality is better supervised.
Click to expand...

Man... really liking the Precision Matthews PM-727V (variable speed w/ gear head). Thanks for pointing me in that direction Count.

Looks like a beast weighing in at 475lbs (w/ out base) and has a quill DRO already installed. Cost on it is $2850 after shipping w/ the 3 axis DRO and stand.

Man... decisions decisions!
 
DROs are nicer for beginners in my opinion. It's ingrained somewhere alongside remembering to breathe when unconscious and hold my breath underwater, to hand feed out backlash before dialing to graduations, but only because I've done it a million times. DROs don't eliminate backlash, they just make it less relevant. They make a lot of things easier ( 1 revolution 2 revolution 3 oh that's shiny, shit where was I?)
 
kuraki said:
DROs are nicer for beginners in my opinion. It's ingrained somewhere alongside remembering to breathe when unconscious and hold my breath underwater, to hand feed out backlash before dialing to graduations, but only because I've done it a million times. DROs don't eliminate backlash, they just make it less relevant. They make a lot of things easier ( 1 revolution 2 revolution 3 oh that's shiny, shit where was I?)
Click to expand...

Invest in "Ball Screws" if you plan on upgrading that "New/Used" mill, smooth as glass and helps eliminate backlash...but you're right about the breathing and taking out backlash it's second nature you don't have to think about it...That was actually a "Test" for applicants looking for work...and you can tell who has had some experience just by them looking and setting the dials to zero and checking against the DRO's make sure they read the same after taking out backlash. Then unplug DRO's:eek::eek::eek::D
 
Is that Matthews Precision mill an X3 clone? The G0619 I've got is an X3 clone and they all work pretty good.

On your question about 2 axis vs 3 axis DRO - I installed a 2 axis DRO on my mill thinking it would be ok because of the digital readout for the quill. After using it a while, I decided to move the 2 axis to the lathe and got a 3 axis for the mill. MUCH better once I learned to use the DRO rather than quill for DOC while milling. I do like it better. Here's the 3 axis DRO I used for $273 shipped. https://goo.gl/AjyKT5
 
Alright, order has been placed with Precision Matthews/QMT, ordered the PM-727V with the DRO (glass), x axis auto feed, stand, 5" vise, and a few odds and ends. Won't get it until next month sometime, but that gives me time to prep the shop. Thanks for everyone's input, this will be fun to learn!
 
There 's no grass growing under your feet

Let me spend more of your cash

You can hold endmils in a collet, however sometimes pullout of the endmill happens.
If you get endmills with a Weldon flat and an endmill holder you skip that

http://www.kbctools.com/products/WO...APTERS @@26 ARBORS/END MILL HOLDERS/2609.aspx
Two sizes 3/8" and 1/2" at probably all you will use


Get the catalogues from KBC, Travers, Sowa Tools, Shars, Hardinge
You will see all sorts of things you will need later, but at the same time you're learning what's available and how it's done.

Edge finders
Parallels
Dial Indicator
Dial Test Indicator
 
12345678910 said:
There 's no grass growing under your feet

Let me spend more of your cash

You can hold endmils in a collet, however sometimes pullout of the endmill happens.
If you get endmills with a Weldon flat and an endmill holder you skip that

http://www.kbctools.com/products/WORK HOLDING/MACHINE ADAPTERS @@26 ARBORS/END MILL HOLDERS/2609.aspx
Two sizes 3/8" and 1/2" at probably all you will use


Get the catalogues from KBC, Travers, Sowa Tools, Shars, Hardinge
You will see all sorts of things you will need later, but at the same time you're learning what's available and how it's done.

Edge finders
Parallels
Dial Indicator
Dial Test Indicator
Click to expand...

Thanks haha

Wouldn't it be more advantageous to get a keyless chuck to take the place of the end mill holder or is there a disadvantage to using it?

I'm sure I'll be ordering many things in the coming years lol. But right off the bat I was going to order the following (if you guys have advise for or against these I would love to hear it):
Anything I'm missing right off the bat? Dial test indicator or parallels or will those be fine at a later date? I did find this thread on tuning the PM-727, looks like he had a bit to do - hope mine won't be that bad but if it is I know the customer support will be there (unlike grizzly!)
 
Don't use 3 jaw drill chucks, keyless or otherwise, for holding endmills. They are not designed to withstand radial (side) loading.

It can be done in a pinch, with small endmills and very very light cuts when there's no other option to accomplish what you need to do, but it's not something you want to plan on doing.

Use collets or endmill holders like the count recommended. FWIW I've been machining 20 years and have always used collets in small manual machines. It's been rare that I have an issue doing so. It can happen, for sure, and an endmill holder will allow you to get the full removal rates the tool and machine are capable of, but it's never been worth the cost to me.

Little Machine Shop has a closeout right now on a 4" milling vise. Only $65. I bought one for my big mill. https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1504&category=
 
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