The Good, The Bad & The Ugly (knives that is)

Gentlemen:
I have to come to the aid of the knife mags. Having supplied the Uluchet for review by a couple of different publications, it was reviewed with no ads in print or contracted for. The pieces were returned to me without the hint of "a better review if I get to keep it" and I was assured that the truth would be told if the knife had faults. I have the article in print and a change to the handle design to show for it.
It's possible that there are some unscrupulous reviewers, but not all of them deserve to be condemned.
Just my experience.

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P.J.
YES,it is sharp, just keep your fingers out of the way!
www.silverstar.com/turnermfg


 
Thanks for a reply supporting knife mags. It is good to see a truly critical review & more importantly a better knife resulting from it. That is part of what custom knives are all about.

Please tell us, what knife magazine was it?

I hope that if you were a major advertiser in that magazine, you would have had the same feedback.
 
I'm not a writer...or a reviewer...knifemaker...etc.

But I must admit, I like looking at the Knife Magazines once in a while.

The reviews are probably a little bias and:

a) focus on the tool's most positive attributes ("If you can't say something nice, then don't say nothing at all." - Thumper in Bambi).

b) are inspiring to read ie "Hey, honey let's go out and buy that new knife now." - me all the time.

c) show several pictures of the knife - sometimes in use. "Hey look at those killer pictures - gotta have it." - me again.

That is exactly what I expect from a commercial magazine.

Now, if I were reading a peer reviewed journal I'd expect a little more scientific method. And even then, I'd scrutinize the data before incorporating it into my life.

I also like reading the reviews here on the forum...mainly because I can ask The reviewer my own quirky questions and get first hand knowledge.

Everything glossy isn't bad,

John
 
STEVE DICK JUST WROTE A LONG EDITORIAL ABOUT THIS....WHEN THEY RUN INTO A KNIFE THAT THEY CANT WRITE SOMETHING POSITIVE ABOUT...THEY PASS...FOR ALL THE REASONS LES DESCRIBED ABOVE....GOOD JUDGEMENT ID SAY.....THAT IS THEY DO NOT REVIEW THE KNIFE AT ALL....
 
SORRY DOUBLE POST....THE THING WOULDNT LOAD.

[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 24 March 1999).]
 
This evening as I was scanning through a couple hundred e-mails (only a couple addressed to me), I deleted a majority on the knife-list, the list I referred to in a recent editorial. Until last week, I was totally unaware this forum even existed. Excuse me for my ignorance. Then Spark introduced me to the BladeForum and suggested I might enjoy participating. I have a few times. This evening as I was going down the knife-list, one kind soul noted he had seen a couple of my postings on the BladeForum list, and even provided me a link that he thought I might like to review....this one, and suggested I click on. I did.

It certainly appears that most of this flack is directed at me, perhaps because I am not afraid to speak out. First of all, since most of you do not really know me personally, do take much of what I have to say with a grain of salt. I just want to clarify a few things first. For starters, regardless of what fields we tend to think of ourselves as experts in, remember someone else is always better. Thus, no maker out there is the worlds's best at anything, and I've never stated any maker makes the best folders, best fighters, best anything. Most of the makers we feature, even those I produce shop tours on by traversing the world, do NOT advertise with us. So much for ad tie-ups and whoring ourselves. We don't have to suck up to anyone. KI is probably the only cutlery magazine that publishes book reviews printed by another publisher (Blade). We do so because our readers deserve to know about what is available. Whereas Consumer Union very likely sells 500,000 copies per month, or more, KI, with the largest circulation of all the cutlery magazines, and it is growing, sells around 30,000 copies. We have to have ads, or we'll die. One lister stated we review only good knives. If a knife is bad, we don't feature it. To do so would be wasting costly space. After all, consumers have to use their brains, too. One guy mentioned most of our readers are knife makers. Beg to differ here. Most of our readers are consumers. KI is the only cutlery magazine that has run two or three articles on the internet, and we regularly publish e-mail and web site addresses. Our company publishes 10 magazines, and we are presently building 10 separate sites. Yes, we are not afraid of the internet. Think about this. If the three knife magazines and Knife World did not exist, how would collectors find the knife makers? Back up a few decades ago to when a dozen makers formed the Knifemakers Guild. These guys showed their knives at gun shows. The knife collectors of today were probably collecting guns or coins then. One lister claimed reviews are worthless, and many more agreed. And that I am afraid of losing revenues. Well, let me offer this bit. All of you makers who would like to see one of your knives used in an all/out test, send it in right now and I'll personally test it. And I'll write my findings, and return it to you. No obligation on your part. Last year one of our writers tested about a dozen custom camp knives. He reported on how much wood they did or did not cut, etc. A few of the makers received $700-$900 knives back that were dull, chipped, and all. Some weren't very happy. I tested a so-called survival knife about 12 years ago, and reported its teeth wouldn't cut through a small, green tree branch. The maker was mad. I told another survival knife maker (very prominent) that the teeth in his knife were facing the wrong way. He knew it, said that's what the people want. Most of these guys don't advertise with us. SEAL knives? I've been on major magazine staffs for more than 40 years. About 14-15 years ago when I was editing S.W.A.T. mag, I contacted a SEAL team PIO officer at Coronado, and asked him which firearms were G.I. issue. He told me. Then he stated they buy whatever they want, from a silenced .22 rifle to a sawed-off shotgun, whatever will get the job done. So, the Navy may choose one knife as its G.I. issue, but the individual members probably buy what they want. I made my first fixed blade knife back in 1970, before Blade magazine even existed. I made my latest fixed blade knife just last week, and bought an etching machine yesterday. I've only made one folder, so far. I've only forged one fixed blade knife. Does this make me a knife maker? Not by a long shot. But I hope it makes me understand what knife makers go through. In closing, we have published 58 editions of K.I. so far, and I am positive not more than 10 of the maybe 75 knives that were featured on our covers were made by advertisers. I'm not a knife maker, I'm not the smartest editor, but I take pride in what I do, and I don't suck up to anyone. Just recently one of our biggest advertisers got mad at me because I had the balls to tell him a knife he wanted me to run on the cover was a rip-off of another companies knives. He still advertises, and one day I'll produce a cover with a knife I feel is worthy of that cover. Finally, I don't permit our writers to accept knives for evaluations with the idea they can keep them. Makers and factories don't buy editorial space. I've talked too long, so must do. Bud
 
Mr. Lang,

I appreciate your post here. For what it's worth, I still buy KI and other publications because I do like to look at the pictures that introduce the works of different makers and companies. I am glad to hear you're committed to the integrity of your publication.

Still, when I read your editiorial about the "internet", frankly... I wasn't offended. I just laughed. I personally found more useful information here in several months regarding different aspects of knives, makers, models, etc. than I did reading KI for a year. Just my "truth" as I see it, and somewhat differing from your view of the information on the net.

Hope you continue to drop in once in awhile.

sing

 
sorry. double post.

[This message has been edited by sing (edited 25 March 1999).]
 
Bud,

It's great to see you here on BladeForums. I come here to see many different points of view - the straighter the better! Thank you for filling in the other side of the story here.

I'm not currently a subscriber to KI, but your point of view may sway me towards becoming a subscriber.

Hope you enjoy the forums as much as I do!

John,

It's interesting you mention peer reviewed journals. In the knife world, the only peer review process I am aware of is the one applied to those who become Bladesmiths. That peer review seems to be a pretty tough row to hoe. If you know of other peer review situations involving knives, it might make an interesting thread.

[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 25 March 1999).]
 
Bob,

Sorry to imply that I meant "Knife Journals", I was just comparing/contrasting different publication styles and how I interpretted those styles. (ie commercial mag vs journal)

I don't know of a peer reviewed knife journal - it looks like those glossy mags and the internet are the only games in town.

I agree, a peer reviewed journal would be a laborious project. The lay reader would probably not be interested in statistical analysis of kraton handles etc...sure, it sounds fun at first, but as one reads on it becomes a mass of numbers, linear regressions, and other calculations that make the drool spill from the side of my mouth as my head kerchunks on the table w/ my glassy eyes overcome w/ sleep.

I'm satisfied w/ the glossy mags...They're like National Geographic for knives...pseudoscientific field reports w/ plenty of pictures highlighting the goodness of a product.

Later,

John

(PS I first thought this was a Clint Eastwood thread....)

 
Bud
Well said and thought provoking post.It has put this thread more in perspective regarding reviews by knife publications.
Bob
 
John,

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[This message has been edited by Bob Irons (edited 25 March 1999).]
 
Bud,

I appreciate your honest reply. As the originator of this topic, my intent was to stimulate a forum of reviewing the reviewers so to speak. Certaintly, I am no expert, but a modest collector. I read & enjoy Knives Illustrated monthly (as well as Blade & Tactical Knives).

Just as KI has brought knives out of secluded gun shows to the general public (if not mainstream) it has opened a huge audience to the makers & manufacturers you feature, review & whom advertise with you. Along with that comes a responsibility I believe for the makers & manufacturers to produce & deliver knives to the level of quality they claim or advertise. In the case of custom makers, those standards should be to that agreed to by the buyer & maker at time of order as well as any advertised claims.

Certaintly, a camp knife should fufill a role different than a tactical folder or pearl handled damascus gents knife. Nevertheless, makers & manufacturers should not feel badly if their knives do not meet the standards to which they are evaluated (utility, edge holding, strength, fit & finish etc.) assuming their evaluation is in a role for which they are made. Rather this feedback should lead to a better product.

There is a major difference between "sucking up" to an advertiser & simply withholding negative press. The former suggests presenting information more favorable than it actually is. I for one have never thought you nor other editors do this. The latter involves not presenting unfavorable information, such as not publishing evaluated & returned knives which do not meet reasonable standards. Anyone presenting a knife to you for review has by submission accepted a responsibility to us, the reader. Our loss is in what you do not put to press, not at all what does make it to publication. I respect your publication & expertise & in no way intend this to be a complaint or "rant" but rather a comment on the need to better come to an understanding of the quality of knives I can't handle, test or use before a purchase.

Drew
 
Mr. Lang -- thanks for calling me a "kind soul", and thank you for replying
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Now if I could get Blade Editor Steve Shackelford to join ... anybody has his email address?
 
Les and Bud, I enjoy all the knife mags! As far as magazines go, they have less ads than most. I don,t mind seeing ads from reviewed knives. Hey, its a bussiness. Most of the reviews are right on,IMO. Its not possible to be all things, all the time,to all. If I feel so moved against something I will write them, no matter who they are! I'm very thankful to the magazines! I find them informative, respectfully humorous and pretty good pictures! The only negativity, is my wife says, why do I have so many? How much could possibly be written about Knives? I just smile
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and say its not just about knives...theres more to it
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My hats off to all the people involved. Good job, with a hard task.
And keep it coming!!!!
I feel graced by the presence of all those in the forums. It is good to be a part of this family!(can I say that?)Are you gettin misty??LOL...no really!!!
Sincerly BART
 
I wholeheartedly agree Drew. You cant count on the magazines to be impartial. They count on those advertising dollars soooooo much. And the theory that "if we dont review it, stay away from it" only adds insult to injury. It is almost like they are saying "if a company doesn''t advertise with us and as a result we dont review their knives, stay away from it". That is why I look at the knife magazines to get news and events info, as well as to see pictures and other info about knives I may be intersted in, but for real reviews I come right here... to this forum. I know that my fellow forumites will give real info, good and bad about knives.
 
What we need here is perspective. Before your next posts condemning knife mags, you should all be required to read at least one issue each of Flex, Muscle and Fiction (I mean Fitness) and "All-Natural Muscle Development."
Until you have read three or four publications, all owned by the same individual, all rehashing the same information, all writing articles ONLY about advertisers, and all with a ratio of about 15% info pages to 85% ads, you don't know what crappy, worthless media really is. If any of you think I'm kidding, I urge you to look these things up. And I haven't even started on the fact that they try to pretend that men with 280+ pounds of lean body mass are not shooting horse steroids . . .

Just remember, it could be worse!
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It could be worse you say....Bill Clinton is running the country...starting ww3.... maybe youre right...only not it could be...it will be worse!!!!!!!!
 
It was nice to see Bud Lang and Steven Dick contribute. Some one said something about Steve Shackelford (editor of Blade). He is trying to do something for the custom knife buyers.

Recently, he contacted me to ask if I would be interested in doing a Seminar at the Blade Show. He wasnt sure exactly what area's of custom knives it would cover. In addition to myself will be Jerry Schroder, a very well known and respected dealer of high end knives (especially autos) and my LDC partner in crime Bob Neal.

I do know it is to take place sometime Saturday afternoon during the Blade Show. I dont know what time yet or location.

For all of you with your inquiring minds, stop by and ask your questions.

Also, in regards to the magazines. Ive stated this before. If your not happy with the articles write your own. Do your own tests, submit your photos. If the writing is good and the photos are good. The article will get printed.

However, expect all those "experts" out there to sharp shoot your findings.



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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 
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