The Gunting: An Alternative View Point

Mauser,
I do know that GUNTING criticism causes somewhat more than adequate reaction from this design's fan side
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But I feel that you have caused escalation of this reaction even not as far with the statements you review includes but mostly with tone it is written in. I'm not GUNTING fan and I agree with the sense of most your arguments. However reading your review I couldn't resist impression that this is not thought only but verdict.

Returning to GUNTING knife - it is designed to support certain system of defensive techniques and it does it very well. I have met Bram and saw the technique demonstrations and considered that entire knife design match the system perfectly. For someone who would choose this defensive system and train these techniques the GUNTING could be very natural choice as a part of entire system.

One thing what should be clearly visible but sometimes seems to escape some user attention. The GUNTING supports defensive techniques but no way can replace them. As analogy even the best pen can't help someone who don't know how to write
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To be as good in hand-to-hand combat as Bram it is not enough to buy Bram designed knife - someone should also to train like Bram.

Quite another question - are you considering this system good for you or not. For example I have very different defensive philosophy but this is the topic for another discussion. As natural result I do not choose GUNTING as my everyday carry. Justification is very simple: as each knife GUNTING has its pluses and minuses. If I'm not going to utilize pluses I can see no reasons to come to terms with minuses. Simply I can have longer blade in lighter, slimmer and less causing attention package, SPYDERCO Military or Starmate for ex.

BTW, I have spent not too much time with Sal (would like to spend more
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) but believe me - this man is not woman like sensitive. Someone should train really hard to make his blood boil. I have rarely met so solid and balanced people.


[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 04-16-2001).]
 
My alternate view on the Gunting is this--if you think you may be going to a knife fight, take a gun.
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Hmm I hope you are further than 23-25 feet, unlocked, cocked and ready to go..or forget that firearm...ROFL...

hmm Sergiusz...that might be the nicest thing you've ever said about my knife..I'm really flattered! THANK YOU!!!!
You actually looked @ it..cool.
yuo are right that I need to show people how to do the "fancy stuff" but the rest is gross motor skills..especially Tomahawking and Kin-Op...

anyways..thank you all again for checking it out..no knife is the perfect answer for all things or people...

 
I picked up a Gunting about a month ago and I haven't been able to put it down. Even if you don't agree with the defense methodology behind it, it makes one heck of a utility knife. It is probably the SHARPEST knife I have ever opened straight out of the box and the kinetic opening is a cool feature. I like the compression lock and CPM 440V steel is awesome. I am glad that the blade is under 3". I think that this enables it to appeal to a broader audience, especially those with stringent knife laws.
Thanks,
Matt
 
Greetings all,

I've been away a few weeks doing a couple of knife seminars (including Bram's) and some firearms re-certs so if any of this is boring and or repetitive please excuse me.
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My background is as a LE DT instructor. That means that most of my combative training, firearms excluded of course, has been geared towards controlling people without terminating them.

After attending Bram's seminar on the Gunting in Vancouver B.C. I will say this unequivocally: the Gunting is the best control device I have ever been exposed to.

The following is regarding the Gunting as a control tool i.e. LE or security usage.

  • It is better then empty hands because it is steel and steel feels no pain. It is a tool which increases leverage and foccus. It will work to amplify ANY empty hand control technique I ever knew and make it work at least twice as well.
  • It is better then OC 10 because it will work in any weather, will not run out and can transition to full-out combat if need be. Plus it will not wind up being sprayed on me by my partner.
  • IMHO it is better then a baton. I love sticks. I ALWAYS had my stick with me on the street and I was good with it, but the problem with the baton is the narrow spectrum it occupies on the force continuum. You dang (DANG: Texan for DAMN) near can shoot someone before you can use your stick. I would almost bet that more shots are fired by cops then licks taken with a baton. Would I rather have a baton then a Gunting (CRMIPT) when the hitting started? Depends on range. I notice that the longer my carrer went the shorter I kept cutting my baton down. This was because I became increasingly aware of how little space I usually had to work in and how close people usually were when the work started. I wish I had owned a Gunting CRMIPT when I was on the street. I would have had it out and in my hand when I made most of my arrests.
  • I think every LEO needs to have the chance to carry a Gunting CRMIPT. I am dead serious.

Now as for the Gunting knife and civilian use. What's not to like? It is rugged, it is bullet proof, to use a motorcycle phrase. Pennsylvania Dutch would say "hell for stout", but it is not clubbish. It is elegant in its engineering, every nuance has a purpose. SG, can I please get this clip for every pocket knife I own?

The blade is short? You're right, when I get into a knife fight I want a 14" bowie and advance notice. I probably won't get either. This blade will cut to the bone on any part of the human body. That's deep enough.

Those of you who have not been exposed to the idea of a force continuum should do so. It will benefit you. The basic idea is that you need to take a considered approach to your self-defense response. Yes, I agree it sucks, but there are a lot of laws out there, legislated and case law, that contain this idea. If you run afoul of them there will be a consequence. I, nor anyone else I know of, advocates avoiding these consequences to the loss of your life, but believe me, I KNOW freedom is nearly as valuable as life. If we totally disregard these rules of society, agree with them or no, we will have a huge problem. I don't like it but it's true. Think about it.

Okay, this has been long and boring, just one more point. Think hard about your target selection. Do you want to live? Destroy that which can kill you. LEO mantra....watch the hands, watch the hands, watch the hand. Think about the dead man's 30 seconds. Think about how much in harm's way you are when you cut or thrust to the body. If you attack the weapon hand/arm you are safer on both accounts. If you don't belive me go spar with someone who is a bowie fighter. The first half dozen passes will make it clear.

Final word the Gunting is for real, there are many great tools out there, all with a place, the Gunting is one of them.

P.S. & BTW Don't take a gun to a gun fight either, take a shotgun. More to the point NEVER take a gun to a knife fight. This is why the Parthians never closed with the Roman legion. It's conceptual.


------------------
Greg R. Beeman
Si Vis Pacern Parabellum
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi

[This message has been edited by crecy (edited 04-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by crecy (edited 04-17-2001).]
 

Bram,
I didn't change my opinion anyway on GUNTING minuses. But brandishing it some time and cutting some stuff when training kinetic opening (starting from old-rags-made dummies up to my palm) I have learned somewhat better its pluses.

As to knife vs. firearm confrontation. I'm just curious why all knife fight instructors are supposing that man with handgun will stand on his place and draw his gun when will be attacked with knife fighter? If drawing the handgun he will escape at least half as fast as knife fighter attacks (I would) he will have enough time even at 10-15 feet range. Believe me it is no less tricks of gunfight than tricks of knife fight, it is just question of the training. But this is the topic for quite another discussion
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Friends, again - don't try kinetic opening on live knife - it cuts like crazy - obligatorily get trainer for first familiarization!


[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 04-17-2001).]
 
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