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The History of 3V, Cru-Wear, and Z-Tuff Steel

Discussion in 'Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers' started by Larrin, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    I wrote about how a steel patented in 1964 led to a whole host of steels including 3V, Cru-Wear, Z-Tuff, and many others. And the knifemakers that first used these steels in knives. Also the general properties of those steels like toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/03/the-history-of-3v-cru-wear-and-z-tuff-steel/
     
    d762nato, BITEME, nsm and 7 others like this.
  2. samuraistuart

    samuraistuart KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 21, 2006
    My Dad had one of those Gerber Knives in Vasco Wear. This was when I was a little kid, and both of us only knew about "carbon steel and stainless steel", not necessarily different alloys. Before I knew it was his favorite knife, I had already fell in love with it, because of the edge retention it had over what we were used to at the time.
     
  3. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger

    Sep 20, 2015
    That-a-woman !
    You go girl !
    Obviously the brains of the outfit. :)
     
    Bigfattyt, Willie71 and Larrin like this.
  4. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    My favorite article so far. I have been blown away by the performance of this group of steels. Learning the history was quite fun. Seeing the change in chromium vs. vanadium carbides when using PM technology has been enlightening.
     
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  5. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    Very kind, Warren. You keep saying that with every article.
     
  6. hugofeynman

    hugofeynman

    537
    Jan 18, 2011
    Can’t wait for a Ztuff, S7 and A8mod from AKS toughness comparison! NZ3 and Ultrafort should also be nice to compare with those three.
     
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  7. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    Not every one, but the last few have just been better and better! You are also writing on my specific area of interest lately.
     
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  8. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I’ve heat treated four A8mod samples last week, and have four more to do tomorrow. I want to get the, in the mail by Friday.
     
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  9. jdm61

    jdm61 itinerant metal pounder Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 12, 2005
    Well, publish the odd crappy article so that he can have a little rest. :p
     
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  10. Larrin

    Larrin Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2004
    The next one will be annealing. No one likes annealing.
     
  11. rodriguez7

    rodriguez7 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 1, 2009
    This is my favorite class of steels also! I’m looking forward to reading this article! Thanks Larrin!
     
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  12. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    Damn, I like annealing......
     
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  13. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    Great informative article Larrin :thumbsup:
     
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  14. nsm

    nsm Niagara Specialty Metals Platinum Member Dealer / Materials Provider

    145
    Jun 15, 2009
    Nice job Larrin. Keep up the good work.
     
    Larrin likes this.
  15. BITEME

    BITEME Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 14, 2007
    I used to watch for the vascowear Gerber, up till about 2 years ago you could occasionally find them,haven't seen any since...I am crazy happy with some of the new steels out,(rex45,bd1n,bdz1,14c28n, m390,k390) now it's just about saving up for what you want
     
  16. Storm W

    Storm W

    185
    Feb 19, 2019
    Very cool article. I agree with Warren that the last 2 have been especially interesting.

    A question that has bugging me is how does the carbon ratio work? For instance with M2 and M4 there is a lot of alloy and a similar mix. I'm assuming that the carbide difference is substantial between the 2. Or in the examples in this article if you add 1% more vanadium how much carbon needs to be added to use that extra vanadium?
     
    Willie71 likes this.
  17. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    Additionally, when comparing cast to pm, can we predict with accuracy what carbides will form?
     
  18. Storm W

    Storm W

    185
    Feb 19, 2019
    That was super interesting about getting different carbide with 3V vs ingot. Is that something that would happen with other PM steels?
     
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  19. Willie71

    Willie71 Warren J. Krywko. Part Time Knifemaker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 23, 2013
    I’m curious. The temp at which carbides form, and the different temps which cast vs. Pm steels solidify probably generalize. M2/M4 probably have similar differences from cast cru-wear and cpm cru-wear.
     
  20. Storm W

    Storm W

    185
    Feb 19, 2019
    I just used those because the alloy is similar but the carbon content is very different. If I understand it right the the alloys are by weight that carbon being much lighter than say tungsten smaller changes make a big difference. I assume that the alloys work differently when they aren't being turned into carbides.
     

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