The Phenolic Thread

TAH

TAH

Joined
Jul 3, 2001
Messages
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How durable is this stuff? Has anyone ever seen a cracked Phenolic handle? Are Buck's Phenolic handles solid all the way to the tang? Is there anything that can damage Phenolic (i.e. chemicals (deet), extreme heat or cold, Superman, etc.) Do any other knife companies use Phenolic today? If not, do we need bumper stickers that say, "Phenolic: It's a Buck thing. You wouldn't understand." :)

Here's an antique telephone that is made of Bakelite, which is a phenolic resin. Look familiar? Feel free to add photos of any Phenolic "items" that you might own. ;)

200-series-bell-lg.jpg
 
The phenolic handle material of the Buck knives is are as durable as a good handle material can be. No probs at all. And if you made some schratches, sand them out and after polishing the handle looks like new. It is great stuff that Buck uses. Only one series, the 119 Experimental has the disposition to crack. But the Experimental, 625 of them were made in 1996, has a molded handle - a method never has been used for other knives.

Haebbie
 
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Maybe this has already been done or maybe it's not practical, I don't know, but I think it would be a great idea if Buck would use this on a folder. Think of a 110 with phenolic scales and brass bolsters! I think it would look even more classic than it already does. Also, Phenolic scales and Nickel bolsters on a 110 would look nice.
If this has been done, does anyone have pictures?
 
TAH, I have seen a rare Buck knife handle crack. I don't know what caused it. I personally have not had one crack. I've removed a few handles and the material is quite thick all through the handle. It is strong stuff. I don't know if other knife companies use this handle material. I have a Buck knife from a relative of mine that was accidentally backed over in deer camp by a pick up truck. And the handle was not harmed. DM
 
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I have carried a Buck in this material in some extreme weather conditions without any issues. I have gotten them too close to fires, too. Once, on a rescue mission on the edge of the frozen Bering Sea where a house was on fire, it was so cold and I was so layered I did not realize how close to the fire I actually was! No problems with my knife going from cold to hot to cold. I have seen them crack but I think it was a case of pounding it on something. I saw one broken by an 18 wheeler, but that is about it.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I only own one Phenolic handle, which is my 105. I was told my early 70s, 309 is Delrin. Has Buck ever used Phenolic on the 300 Series or have they only used Delrin for the black handle models? Is there any real difference between Phenolic and Delrin?
 
TAH said:
How durable is this stuff? Has anyone ever seen a cracked Phenolic handle? Are Buck's Phenolic handles solid all the way to the tang? Is there anything that can damage Phenolic (i.e. chemicals (deet), extreme heat or cold, Superman, etc.) Do any other knife companies use Phenolic today? If not, do we need bumper stickers that say, "Phenolic: It's a Buck thing. You wouldn't understand." :)
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Is phenolic tough????
Have you ever seen a cracked pool / billiard ball ????

(BTW, I drive a Jeep because I do understand.... :D )
 
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Haebbie's right. Buck's experimental model 119 will crack but they are marked. So, you should know not to use it. DM
 
Boy, that was 20 years ago and not much was written on it. I think the knife carried a statement in the box, that read, to the effect, the handle on this knife was made using a experimental process. Injection molded process (I think). And this material was since found to crack in cold weather. Several of us collectors bought them anyway as, we thought of it like a limited edition or a odd ball model. Hence, we didn't use them and some did develop cracks in storage right in the box. Others like Haebbie's didn't.? As a reminder Buck put that on the blade. Nobody sent them in as we wanted it in original condition. (this was before the days of whining over the least little thing). That process was dropped at El Cajon and smooth sailing continued. But those that got one of those knifes now have a historical object. Rarely you'll see one pop up and people want to know what was the flaw. As I recall, that's Buck history 101. DM
 
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TAH said:
Tell me about "The Experimental". It sounds top secret. How is it different and why is it prone to cracking?
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I'm sure a search of the forum will find more detailed discussion but I'll give a quick explanation as I understand it. Normally the knives are assembled from individual components slid onto the tang and pinned in place. The experiment was an attempt to cast the aluminum and phenolic components directly onto the knife instead of assembling individual parts. My guess is that mismatched expansion/contraction properties of the differing materials led to the cracking and ultimate failure of the project.

(looks like David types a little quicker than I do...)
 
Buck tried to use a "new" production process - to mold the material arount the tang of the knife. But it went wrong. The different thermal extention coefficient of the different materials leads to cracks in the molded material. Buck sold the 625 pilot run of specimens, for example to the members of Buck Collectors Club. ;)

Haebbie
 
That's it. The expansion coefficient of the sum materials is what created the cracks. Thanks, DM
 
Very interesting. You three and your knowledge is humbling. I do like the looks of the wide aluminum spacers at each end of the handle, especially the one behind the guard.

Thanks for the explanation.
 
TAH said:
Thanks for the replies so far. I only own one Phenolic handle, which is my 105. I was told my early 70s, 309 is Delrin. Has Buck ever used Phenolic on the 300 Series or have they only used Delrin for the black handle models? Is there any real difference between Phenolic and Delrin?
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To my knowledge, Buck has never used phenolic on the 300 series.

Phenolic is a thermoset. It is purchased as a liquid. Heat is applied. A chemical curing reaction occurs, and it hardens. Phenolic is used in structural applications. It is extremely heat resistant, with a service temperature typically greater than 450°F.

Delrin is a thermoplastic. It is purchased as solid beads. Heat and extreme pressure are applied to melt it and form it to shape. Delrin is very dimensionally stable, and is sometimes used for mechanical gears, but not for structural applications. Delrin became especially popular for pocket knife covers because of its dimensional stability and because it can be dyed in a process similar to that for dying bone.

This means that I would only use Delrin for handle designs where it is not the load bearing material (like as the covers on a 300 series knife). Phenolic can be used as a load bearing material. I don't see any advantage in using phenolic for the 300 series covers. I do see an advantage to using phenolic as the handle of a 100 series fixed blade.
 
Thanks for the excellent post, knarfeng. I have a new appreciation for Phenolic now. :thumbup:
 
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