The plague of S30V and S35VN

dkb45

dkb45

Joined
Dec 16, 2012
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Being a knife nut, of course I keep an eye on new models, and always look to see if I can find the next new knife I can fall madly in love with (until the next thing comes around). It's the nature of the beast when it comes to collecting. After extensive use, however, I have found I just don't really care for how S30V and S35VN perform on a pocket knife. They are great steels to most people, but they are pretty garbage on holding a razor edge, and that makes me sad. That leads to the next problem...

It seems every new model now made by almost any manufacturer is in S30V or S35VN. Every manufacturer is in on it. Seeing the new models I was.initially happy, then that turned to mostly apathy as I see a new design that catches my eye, then find it's in the same two steels. ZT dropped a great steel completely (Elmax) for S35VN, and it just doesn't hold the second edge. Overall edge retention or razor edge, S30V and S35VN are pretty middle of the road, are kinda towards the back of the pack as far as super steels are concerned... so why are they on every bloody model?

Am I the only one seriously fed up with these steels flooding the market?
 
I like S30V. Only takes a few touch up swipes on the sharpmaker to get my razor sharp, hair shaving edge back. That being said, I’ve noticed that during normal use (I am a warehouse manager and cut things at least 15-20x daily) I don’t have to touch it up more than once a week. Seems to hold its shaving edge for plenty of time in my opinion. This is exclusive to Spyderco and Buck S30V, I have very little experience with other brands variations of said steel.

On the ZT comment- I don’t have much experience with ELMAX yet, but from carrying my 0562 comparing it with my S30V Military, the Military definitely holds a better and longer edge in my uses in the warehouse.
 
I'm not fed up but I do think that we are at a point of diminishing returns within the steel race. Clearly steel sells however and makers will continue to offer knives in the next super steel for that reason alone.

Now don't get me wrong, I've bought knives for their steel but for me, especially after being in the hobby for several years, VG-10 works just as well as S35V. Hell, I just bought a Benchmade with 440C (Oh, the horror!).

Big picture, knife makers offer exotic steels to sell knives. That is good for all of us. Are the steels worth it, that is up to the buyer, but hopefully the makers will keep offering choices and that is good for everyone.
 
I like S30V, and S35VN. Not that long ago they were the super steels everyone wanted. I buy knives for function, and design. I am OK with a wide range of steels from high carbon 1095, and A-2, and stainless CR8 to S90V, M390, etc
 
I have owned a lot of knives in different steels. I have no complaints and I like S30V & S35VN. They're tested and proven steels that many companies have perfected the heat treatment on. Don't fix something that isn't broken.
 
Lol since when have those two steels been garbage? You must be a newer knife nut since the "average" Steel was aus-8 and 8cr13mov on pretty much everything a few years back. My only complaint is I wish Spyderco used s35vn more than s30v.
 
They both work well for me. S30V seems to be less forgiving of a less-than-optimal heat treat, but done right, it's an excellent steel.

Shirogorov uses S30V. Crusader Forge specializes in S30V and does a great job with the heat treat. Benchmade's rep on its subforum has said that the company uses S30V so much because it performs so well. Spyderco is no stranger to a wide variety of steels and Sal knows a ton about heat treating, and Spyderco uses a lot of S30V. S35VN is used by Chris Reeve Knives. Phil Wilson has said great things about S30V.

There really is no doubt that these are great steels, but we're in an era of super steels, some that hold and edge forever, some that are super tough. But both S30V and S35VN are excellent, well balanced steels. In my experience, S30V in particular, needs not just a good heat treat but also a proper sharpening. It's easy to leave a very small, hard burr that if not fully removed will make it seem as though it's not holding a keen edge for long. But sharpened well, it holds a great edge.
 
It is nice to have some variety. I know that if a knife was offered in s35 and another steel I would probably go for the other steel just for varieties sake (as long as that other steel wasn't a Chinese alphabet soup steel).
Not because s35 is bad, far from it, but I have a bloody lot of knives in it.
 
I think the answer is pretty simple. Production knife companies make the lions share of their living by selling knives, not to a small cadre of geeky enthusiasts (i.e. all of us posting here), but to a wide range of "normal" people who just want a high quality knife at an affordable price point. S30V and S35VN offer a great balance of the important attributes for a knife steel (good edge holding, good toughness, stainless, easier for neophytes to sharpen). They are also widely available at a good price to manufacturers and they are easy to work with on the productions side.

It makes all the sense in the world that manufacturers would use these steels as their basic go-to materials for large runs of production knives. Sure, us knife nerds are gonna want everything in Maxamet, Curwear, M4, M390 and the next great thing to come, but it would be a financial disaster for say, Spyderco if they suddenly stopped offering PM2s in S30V and did them all in Maxamet or Cruwear. The costs would go up and they'd have knives coming back to them all the time from every Joe Blow complaining that the knife was too chippy and couldn't be sharpened and its getting rusty. How dare you charge me $200 for this?! Or they could do them all in M390 and charge $250 for them and sales would plummet.

Honestly, I don't think we could ask for anything better than the model Spyderco currently has going. Offer large runs of well-established popular designs in S30V, and then offer other smaller stream production lines of higher performing steels (S110V, Maxamet), and THEN on top of that offer sprint runs and dealer exclusives in even more high end super steels to cater to us nerds. How on earth could we really expect a company to do better for us than that??

It just seems kinda ridiculous to complain about the current state of steel availability in the current knife market. It's better than it's ever been. And it's gonna keep getting better. It's a great time to be alive.
 
I've got two in S30V and two in S35Vn. No complaints with any of them. But they do seem to getting ubiquitous. Good for users, IMO, bad for enthusiasts who want to try something different.
 
i don't have anything bad to say about S30V/S35VN,of course i like supper steels as well if i can find a well made folder with ether of these steels!i'll get it,but thats just me.:)
 
Great post that just about days it all HD.
What is really funny, to me, is no matter what the manufacturers do.....there will be some bitching. It’s not that long ago that S30V was THE super steel. Now most are disappointed when a model they like only comes with it.
Joe

halden.doerge said:
I think the answer is pretty simple. Production knife companies make the lions share of their living by selling knives, not to a small cadre of geeky enthusiasts (i.e. all of us posting here), but to a wide range of "normal" people who just want a high quality knife at an affordable price point. S30V and S35VN offer a great balance of the important attributes for a knife steel (good edge holding, good toughness, stainless, easier for neophytes to sharpen). They are also widely available at a good price to manufacturers and they are easy to work with on the productions side.

It makes all the sense in the world that manufacturers would use these steels as their basic go-to materials for large runs of production knives. Sure, us knife nerds are gonna want everything in Maxamet, Curwear, M4, M390 and the next great thing to come, but it would be a financial disaster for say, Spyderco if they suddenly stopped offering PM2s in S30V and did them all in Maxamet or Cruwear. The costs would go up and they'd have knives coming back to them all the time from every Joe Blow complaining that the knife was too chippy and couldn't be sharpened and its getting rusty. How dare you charge me $200 for this?! Or they could do them all in M390 and charge $250 for them and sales would plummet.

Honestly, I don't think we could ask for anything better than the model Spyderco currently has going. Offer large runs of well-established popular designs in S30V, and then offer other smaller stream production lines of higher performing steels (S110V, Maxamet), and THEN on top of that offer sprint runs and dealer exclusives in even more high end super steels to cater to us nerds. How on earth could we really expect a company to do better for us than that??

It just seems kinda ridiculous to complain about the current state of steel availability in the current knife market. It's better than it's ever been. And it's gonna keep getting better. It's a great time to be alive.
Click to expand...
 
I'd say I'm not entirely sick of S30V, for a working knife it does the job quite well. I am getting a bit tired of EVERY new model being ran with S30V.

I know I've said it before, but if Spyderco ran some of their S30V knives with XHP I'd be buying a lot more of them. Same with Benchmade. A 940-2 with a CTS-XHP blade for an extra $10-20 would be an absolutely incredible knife.
 
I never bought alot of S30V but never had any trouble with it ... and I'm not sure what knife brands or models you dislike the S35VN or S30V but I think ZT does a good job with theirs seems to hold an edge as well as Elmax in the exact models I have in Elmax and S35VN.

I know some think CRK runs it a bit soft but I have never truely had any issue with it ...

and both are fairly simple to touch up after a days use in 5 minutes or so I use a ceramic hone and or a horsehide strop and the edge is back teady for tomorrow.
 
palonej said:
Great post that just about days it all HD.
What is really funny, to me, is no matter what the manufacturers do.....there will be some bitching. It’s not that long ago that S30V was THE super steel. Now most are disappointed when a model they like only comes with it.
Joe
Click to expand...
Just like VG10 went from Super Steel to pedestrian .
 
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