The real reason balisongs were banned?

Knife_Collector_101 said:
What is the real reason why butterfly knives, or balisongs, became subject to so many bans and restrictions around the world?

I ask this question because it’s one of those things people seem to acknowledge but everybody has a different answer to why some governments decided to bring the prohibition hammer down on them.

The most common thing people will tell you is this:

1.) They were banned because so many people were playing with them and injuring themselves.

I’ve tried to look for some kind of official documentation of this claim and I can’t seem to find it anywhere. I’m starting to think it’s a myth.

For example, some have said the reason they were banned in Canada is because the injuries and emergency room visits piled up so much it was putting a financial strain on their healthcare system and since Canada has universal healthcare with the government footing the bills, they didn’t want to have to keep paying for people’ accidents so they banned them. I call BS on this for a number of reasons.

1. Balisongs are legal in European countries like Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, and Hungary and those places all have universal healthcare.

2. While it’s possible to cut yourself while practicing tricks with a balisong, the idea of there being such an extraordinarily high number of accidents requiring surgery, stitching, etc. that it swamps a country’s healthcare system I find to be EXTREMELY unlikely. Balisongs were always popular among niche groups, but they were never some popular toy like Lawn Darts, Clackers, and Kinder Eggs which caused actual deaths.

3. Look at the number of accidents people have with daily household items like can openers, kitchen knives, garbage disposals, hedge trimmers, lawnmowers, or accidents with sports like skateboarding and bicycling. I’m willing to venture those numbers are way higher than accidents people have had with balisongs and none of those things were ever banned.

So no, this idea that too many people were cutting themselves is something that doesn’t hold water. This isn’t even a problem today since trainers exist.

What seems more likely, is this:

2.) They were banned because of their intimidation factor with the flashy openings and tricks and the fact that they were seen in a lot of movies being wielded by bad guys. In other words, it was the same deal with switchblades. They simply got a bad reputation, some dumb politicians got scared by them and people thought of them of as dangerous “thug knives.” That seems WAY more likely.

In addition to this, it’s possible that racism was a likely factor in driving the bans. Think about it, it’s a knife from an Asian country (Philippines), it has an Asian sounding name like “Balisong” and it has heavy roots in Asian culture. No doubt that the xenophobia which was a reason for places banning other Asian weapons like nunchucks, throwing stars, etc. played a role.

Interested in hearing any thoughts you guys might have.
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Racism? Really? That's stretching things well beyond logic.

I think it's like switchblades: some weak people got scared by the scary object and opportunistic legislators bend the knee to pacify the weaklings.
 
I agree: when it comes to knives and guns; they'll use any argument possible against us.
 
rhino said:
Racism? Really? That's stretching things well beyond logic.

I think it's like switchblades: some weak people got scared by the scary object and opportunistic legislators bend the knee to pacify the weaklings.
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I agree.

Look, I’m an American of Asian descent, and if there were either any signs or legitimate proof that banning balisongs or nunchaku was rooted in anti-Asian racism, I would point it out. But that is simply not the case here. It wasn’t xenophobia that drove the banning of these objects; it was maybe some outcry from the public about these ‘scary deadly weapons’ they saw in movies, and legislators wanting to look important and relevant by banning them. I also posted earlier about how weapons like throwing stars (shuriken) were outlawed from being mail-ordered, by a karate fighter/postman who found out that kids were ordering throwing stars and the like through the mail, and he (Larry Kelley) felt they were a threat to America’s youth. He testified before Ted Kennedy and his proposal passed. But it had nothing to do with the culture they originated from. In reality, I seriously doubt they were the level of danger that he thought they were. But after his proposal was passed, the martial arts magazines stopped featuring articles on him, because many martial arts supply companies associated with the magazines were hurt by it.

Not everything is rooted in racism. Let’s call it out when it does happen. But saying that things are due to racism in cases where they’re not only harms the credibility of real instances of it (of which there are many).

Jim
 
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James Y said:
I agree.

Look, I’m an American of Asian descent, and if there were either any signs or legitimate proof that banning balisongs or nunchaku was rooted in anti-Asian racism, I would point it out. But that is simply not the case here. It wasn’t xenophobia that drove the banning of these objects; it was maybe some outcry from the public about these ‘scary deadly weapons’ they saw in movies, and legislators wanting to look important and relevant by banning them. I also posted earlier about how weapons like throwing stars (shuriken) were outlawed from being mail-ordered, by a karate fighter/postman who found out that kids were ordering throwing stars and the like through the mail, and he (Larry Kelley) felt they were a threat to America’s youth. He testified before Ted Kennedy and his proposal passed. But it had nothing to do with the culture they originated from. In reality, I seriously doubt they were the level of danger that he thought they were. But after his proposal was passed, the martial arts magazines stopped featuring articles on him, because many martial arts supply companies associated with the magazines were hurt by it.

Not everything is rooted in racism. Let’s call it out when it does happen. But saying that things are due to racism in cases where they’re not only harms the credibility of real instances of it (of which there are many).

Jim
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I am as well and I agree. Coincidentally, my grandmother was from Batangas, which was the province where the balisong originated.
 
Weapon bans all have sociological underpinnings, and so the reasons why they happen tend to vary by time period and location. Centuries ago there were laws passed in several cultures prohibiting wearing swords unless you were of the correct social class. Can't trust the peasants to keep their tempers in check; after all they are lowborn and thus simple. In the 1800s, many firearm restrictions were overtly racist, specifically prohibiting carrying arms if one were black or Native American. In early 20th century America, placing bans on knives and assorted hand weapons like blackjacks or slungshots was claimed to be to quell organized crime violence, but really it was try and make an economic barrier to weapon ownership, as firearms were expensive, whereas any regular joe could get a knife or pour lead shot into a leather bag.

With the rise of widespread popular media (comics and film, then television) from the 40s onward, you start to see a more interesting dynamic. Film and comics not only cast certain weapons as "villainous" but unintentionally made them appealing to young knuckleheads and criminals. These demographics overlap somewhat, but share a common characteristics of power-orientation and super-optimism. That is, they desire to be strong and are overconfident. These people tend to run out and get this cool new weapon they saw at the movies and start playing with it. While rarely used in the actual harming of another person, these weapons are found being carried or in vehicles or living spaces when an arrest happens, and so the police get the mistaken impression that these weapons are a "threat" to their personal safety and the public despite never actually seeing them used. You can see this kooky logic in play with the testimony from Thompson v Commonweath I mentioned before. These officers then give testimony before politicians, in some cases giving them the idea of a ban in the first place, which is how you get cities like Ocean City MD with its insane list of statutorily banned "weapons" that include things like leather wrist bands with studs (the OC city council pretty much rolls over and does whatever their police department asks). The problem is nobody ever questions it or asks to see statistics of crimes done using the weapon, as opposed to mere possession, nor is lawful ownership and use ever considered. The federal case Maloney v Singas, which overturned the nunchaku ban in NY, is a fascinating exploration of how the law views this topic. Of note is that while the nunchaku ban likely had some vaguely anti-Asian underpinnings when it was passed in the 70s, the judge in Maloney never brought the issue of race up despite being Asian-American herself.
 
If you're never seen the sheer carnage that a bladed weapon can cause, I would suggest you watch the documentary "West Side Story". The dance fighting is among the most brutal and dangerous knife fighting your eyes will ever witness. Be warned that the image will be forever seared into your retinas.
 
tokerblue said:
If you're never seen the sheer carnage that a bladed weapon can cause, I would suggest you watch the documentary "West Side Story". The dance fighting is among the most brutal and dangerous knife fighting your eyes will ever witness. Be warned that the image will be forever seared into your retinas.
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Those grim images of extreme violence remained unsurpassed until . . . Michael Jackson's "Beat It" video. I cower in fear just thinking about it!
 
Racism... give me a break.

Politicians score brownie points for banning a knife that is flashy, scary, obnoxious, and appealing to people who want to intimate others.

When I was a kid everyone tried to get a balisong because they were so cool. This led to a lot of kids and teenagers having them and bringing them to school. The flashy appeal of this type of knife made life more dangerous than otherwise for youths.
 
Politicians banning stuff often doesn’t make any logical sense. Look at moderators as an example.

For us they are something sensible to save your ears when moose hunting. But the very same items are deemed super dangerous in the US. Like another poster said, I blame the film industry for false representations! Or are we equally to blame for having paid to watch those same films 😁
 
Vaytsee said:
Politicians banning stuff often doesn’t make any logical sense. Look at moderators as an example.

For us they are something sensible to save your ears when moose hunting. But the very same items are deemed super dangerous in the US. Like another poster said, I blame the film industry for false representations! Or are we equally to blame for having paid to watch those same films 😁
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Everyone knows that if you put a muffler on the end of a gun, it causes the gun to go on a murder rampage of its own accord and it makes no noise other than the "Thwip!" noise in the movies.
 
We have our own madness here though, so we don’t totally escape.
If a pistol doesn’t fit in to a 13cm x 18cm box, it can be acquired for sports shooting. If it does fit in the box, it’s deemed to be super dangerous and needs a special collectors licence. Practically speaking, this means a G17 is ok but a G19 is no-go for most people.

Imagine how dangerous a G19 with a moderator could be. Could save the population crisis in a weekend, all on its own. 😁
 
Vaytsee said:
We have our own madness here though, so we don’t totally escape.
If a pistol doesn’t fit in to a 13cm x 18cm box, it can be acquired for sports shooting. If it does fit in the box, it’s deemed to be super dangerous and needs a special collectors licence. Practically speaking, this means a G17 is ok but a G19 is no-go for most people.

Imagine how dangerous a G19 with a moderator could be. Could save the population crisis in a weekend, all on its own. 😁
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No one would be left to post about it on bladeforums the next day!

In my state, silencers/suppressors/moderators are not an issue, but we do have to jump through the Federal gov't hoops, pay the $200 tribute per item, and then wait, wait, wait for the gov't drone reviewing the forms to deign to deem us worthy.
 
From the horse's mouth:

HON. KENNETH B. KEATING OF NEW YORK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, January 8, 1958
Mr. KEATING. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I introduced a bill to prohibit the interstate commerce in stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives. This is one important way in which the Federal Government can help localities combat juvenile delinquency.
Under terms of the bill, the knowing manufacture, importation, or transportation of stilettos or switchblade or gravity knives would be punishable by fines of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both. The sale or offer for sale of such knives with the knowledge they were carried in interstate commerce or imported from a foreign country would subject the seller to a fine of not more than $1,000. or imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. In the case of sales or offers to youths under 18, the penalty would be not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both.
Specifically exempted under this bill would be common carriers and freight forwarders who inadvertently ship such knives and those who deal with such articles in connection with their use by the Armed Forces.
The recent rash of teenage crimes and violence in various sections of the country emphasizes once again the magnitude of the challenge of juvenile delinquency. Increasingly, we hear demands that the Federal Government should take a more active role in coping with these problems.
Unfortunately, there are few areas in which the National Government can legitimately assist local groups in combating youthful terrorism. However, by helping to curb the sale and availability of the stiletto and switchblade and gravity knife-through the proper exercise of its power over interstate commerce-- the Government can play a decisive role in depriving teenage hoodlums of their favorite weapon.
Statistics indicate that in the last 5 years, 5 million of these insidious tools have been sold in this country. Their cheap price-95 cents to $1.29-brlngs them readily within the buying range of our younger people, and as a result they have become standard equipment with teenage gangs.
When you consider that 43 percent of the total robberies in the United States last year were by people under 21 years of age, or that last year in New York City 40 percent of the felonious assaults were perpetrated by those under 16, the importance of juvenile crime cannot be discounted. In many of these cases, the switchblade or gravity knife was the chief weapon.
These lethal, vicious weapons can be concealed in the palm of the hand and then, by pressing a button or by a quick flick of the wrist, the blade can be suddenly extended toward the victim. There are practically no useful purposes for the switchblade or gravity knife-- and none whatsoever for the deadly stiletto which has no cutting edge, only a sharp, dangerous point. Clearly, the few useful purposes for these articles are insignificant compared to the obvious criminal use to which they are put in most cases. Their presence should be stamped off the face of our Nation as soon as possible.
It is true that 12 States, including New York, have enacted laws in an attempt to curb the sale and possession of these weapons. Already Congress has banned them in the District of Columbia. But through nuances in design and by advertising and sale through the mails, these local laws are today being effectively circumvented. When local laws cannot effectively cope with a problem, the Federal Government is required to take up the slack. By vigorous application of the powers granted by this bill, the Federal power over interstate commerce can end this influx of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives.
This proposal has the strong approval of local law enforcement officials all over the country who are, after all, in the best position to evaluate the need.
By prohibiting the interstate transportation and sale of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives, we will at least be depriving teenage gangs of their favorite weapon. Though this is by no means an answer to the deep challenges of juvenile delinquency, it is one way in which the effectiveness of youthful terrorists can be blunted.
I hope Congress will give speedy consideration to this measure.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
From the horse's mouth:

HON. KENNETH B. KEATING OF NEW YORK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, January 8, 1958
Mr. KEATING. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I introduced a bill to prohibit the interstate commerce in stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives. This is one important way in which the Federal Government can help localities combat juvenile delinquency.
Under terms of the bill, the knowing manufacture, importation, or transportation of stilettos or switchblade or gravity knives would be punishable by fines of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both. The sale or offer for sale of such knives with the knowledge they were carried in interstate commerce or imported from a foreign country would subject the seller to a fine of not more than $1,000. or imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. In the case of sales or offers to youths under 18, the penalty would be not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both.
Specifically exempted under this bill would be common carriers and freight forwarders who inadvertently ship such knives and those who deal with such articles in connection with their use by the Armed Forces.
The recent rash of teenage crimes and violence in various sections of the country emphasizes once again the magnitude of the challenge of juvenile delinquency. Increasingly, we hear demands that the Federal Government should take a more active role in coping with these problems.
Unfortunately, there are few areas in which the National Government can legitimately assist local groups in combating youthful terrorism. However, by helping to curb the sale and availability of the stiletto and switchblade and gravity knife-through the proper exercise of its power over interstate commerce-- the Government can play a decisive role in depriving teenage hoodlums of their favorite weapon.
Statistics indicate that in the last 5 years, 5 million of these insidious tools have been sold in this country. Their cheap price-95 cents to $1.29-brlngs them readily within the buying range of our younger people, and as a result they have become standard equipment with teenage gangs.
When you consider that 43 percent of the total robberies in the United States last year were by people under 21 years of age, or that last year in New York City 40 percent of the felonious assaults were perpetrated by those under 16, the importance of juvenile crime cannot be discounted. In many of these cases, the switchblade or gravity knife was the chief weapon.
These lethal, vicious weapons can be concealed in the palm of the hand and then, by pressing a button or by a quick flick of the wrist, the blade can be suddenly extended toward the victim. There are practically no useful purposes for the switchblade or gravity knife-- and none whatsoever for the deadly stiletto which has no cutting edge, only a sharp, dangerous point. Clearly, the few useful purposes for these articles are insignificant compared to the obvious criminal use to which they are put in most cases. Their presence should be stamped off the face of our Nation as soon as possible.
It is true that 12 States, including New York, have enacted laws in an attempt to curb the sale and possession of these weapons. Already Congress has banned them in the District of Columbia. But through nuances in design and by advertising and sale through the mails, these local laws are today being effectively circumvented. When local laws cannot effectively cope with a problem, the Federal Government is required to take up the slack. By vigorous application of the powers granted by this bill, the Federal power over interstate commerce can end this influx of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives.
This proposal has the strong approval of local law enforcement officials all over the country who are, after all, in the best position to evaluate the need.
By prohibiting the interstate transportation and sale of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives, we will at least be depriving teenage gangs of their favorite weapon. Though this is by no means an answer to the deep challenges of juvenile delinquency, it is one way in which the effectiveness of youthful terrorists can be blunted.
I hope Congress will give speedy consideration to this measure.
Click to expand...
Not sure you were referencing the correct equine orifice...
 
cheap supermarket kitchen knives and box cutters are far more dangerose disposable weapons than equipment that requires a degree of skill or is prized as a tool or collectors piece.
(no offence intended to kitchen knives or their skilled users)🙃
 
That's true.
I've never met a box cutter that didn't end-up taking a chunk of my hide along for the ride!
 
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