The Ultimate Tactical Folder?

S

Sierra912

Joined
Dec 9, 2001
Messages
482
Some very affordable, good quality butterfly or "balisong" knives are now on the market. Benchmade has long been the leader in this field but Tony M. at his end of the world just brought out an impressive hi-tech butterfly knife, and the Italians are likewise introducing some fair work for very little investment in butterfly knives.

Guro Stephen Plink, a noted Silat master and former Special Forces medic, has long carried an inexpensive butterfly knife for both utility and self defense purposes. I've trained a bit with Steve and noted his thought process about butterfly knives, to include having a good inexpensive one coupled with solid skills in how to properly use the instrument is what the objective should be in the first place.

As tactical folders the butterfly knife is arguably the first such folder in this realm dating back to its origins in the Phillipines. I'm surprised we haven't seen a pocket clip format on a quality butterfly blade as it seems fairly easy to design / attach. The belt sheath systems are fairly easy and with Kydex they become no-brainers. Simple in-your-pocket carry is likewise suitable although "balisongs" tend to be rather long and will slide around in the front pants pocket, especially if the pocket is loose fit in design.

Lock wise (safety during use) I don't know that there is a more secure system out there than the butterfly system.

Mike Janich has long written and published on the butterfly knife as a tool and weapon, and his Paladin work is widely read and well received.

Any butterfly knife carriers out there with thoughts, observations, concerns, recommendations, or otherwise?
 
I saw a pocket clip on a Benchmade Balisong. I can't remember if it was in a knife shop or on BM's website.
 
I've always liked the balisong because it's foolproof and bullet proof. No springs to wear out, hardly anything to break, won't close on your fingers, etc. The main trouble with it is getting it opened with one hand. I've never bothered to learn that flashy, one handed routine made popular in the movies. (The guy using this technique usually does it while leering sadisdically). Seems to me like if you went through this bit in front of someone with some training, the opponent would take that second or two to launch some sort of attack. Is there some simple, fairly quick way to open one of these knives one handed while holding it down unobtrusively next to your leg or hidden behind your back? Leigh
 
Blade configurations are limited because it has to fit inside the handles.

They cant be made as comfortable as side openers, since the handles need to be more or less straight.

Some folders are near fixed blade subsitutes, some even being able to chop down a small tree, i would want to do this with a Bali.

Most of the Cheap Bali's out there are cheap knives, 420J2 is the rule, blade play (like 1/8ths of an inch) is common, the coatings tend to flake off, and they look bad.

The Tachyon and the Benchmades are gorgeous.

Everyone also thinks that bali's are illegal (and sometimes they are)

I have been asked in reference to my Benchmade TSEK, "does the butterfly on it mean that its illegal?"

If you wanna talk about Ultimate tactical Folders, i was just thinking about that the other day, so i have some ideas!
 
Cold Steel's bali also has a pocket clip. Unfortunately, it also has that abysmal Carbon V (aka 1095) steel for its blade.
 
I think the butterfly knife is the epitome of the "tactical" folder, though some say there is no such thing as a "tactical" folder, that if it folds, it ain't tactical. But if your idea of a tactical folder is one that won't break, and that makes a good weapon, then there aren't any better answers than a balisong, in my opinion. The old Benchmade/Pacific Cutlery "custom" models are incredibly solid and reliable folding knives. There is a guy in Idaho producing the Monarch line, which is a little rough, but hella' strong. The Cold Steel Arc Angel looks like a bull dog as well.

The somewhat narrow blade profiles that work best with the handle configuration make good fighting blades. The handles are not particularly ergonomic, but according to some philosophies of tactical knife handle design, what is important is that the handle will not slip for brief, extreme use, and to hell with comfort. This is certainly acheivable in the butterfly format. A straighter handle lends itself well to a fighter, as it is pretty much the same in every grip.

As far as manipulation goes, there is a single flip opening for just about every grip, which is just about as fast as a thumb stud, if not faster. I personally don't care that much about ultimate speed of opening, placing more emphasis on simplicity. The motor skills required for the most basic openings are very simple, easier actually than indexing a thumb-stud folder in your hand and finding the stud with your finger. A butterfly opening is more similar to wrist flicking a conventional folder.

So in terms of strength, reliability, simplicity, and fighting format, I think the butterfly is the best.

Benchmade has put a pocket clip on the latch handle of their new 3" utility model, and it looks like a good feature. I prefer a Concealex neck sheath myself, mostly because I live in California where butterfly knives are absurdly lumped in with "gravity" knives as dangerous to society. Now if we could just make it illegal to stab or shoot other people, what a utopia California would be (that drip, drip you hear is the irony).
 
Steve,

Great insight into the butterfly. Agree with you on all counts. I have to check the 3" model out from BM w/ clip.

Do they still cruise 1st Street in San Jose?
 
For me, the bali is the ultimate combat folder.

Mr. Walker, do you know what carry method Guru Stevan Plink used for his bali?

Bill
 
Balis are nice. Unfortunately in my state they are and have been illegal for some time. I have not seen a decent one here since I was a kid and they were legal. If I do see one its usually a cheapo that we take off a hoodlum. Its a pleasure to see a pic of a quality example.
 
I do not like bali's after trying really hard to remove the tip of my finger with one, via a broken tip reprofiled to a scary sharp simiskinner and 17-year old enthusiasm. Ten years of hard bagwork has removed my dexterity responsible for being able to work one of them as well. More of a personal problem than anything else. The scars are gone after nearly fifteen years.

If it can be worked sufficiently well to ensure positive capture of the rotating handle EVERY time and thus a solid grip on an open knife, you have a knife that will not fold up on you unless you break the pins or handle somehow. That is an improvement on virtually every folder out there including the sebenza. The ergo is as good as you need it for the intended altercation, these are not supposed to take forever. Lots of Filipinos made good with the old straight handles just fine.

I may get around one of these days to buying another BM and trying it out, I always wanted the 45 handles to weigh less, and the blade to have a different edge profile. As far as a tac item, not for me, but as a fun knife, sure, why not?

Steve, we have a similar Utopia called Chicago here. Hell, we are now 7 murders down from last year, but this summer is gonna be a hot one. However, due to the "no guns/ knives" rule, the housing projects and other zones of urban prosperity should be A-OK this summer.
 
Good points Parker!

While I prefer clipped folders, I am beginning to appreciate a Bali in a ballistic nylon pouch. Even if you can get a glimpse of the knife in the pouch, the bali handles look like a multi-tool.

Since the late 80s my pockets have been "chewed up" by clips. I have pants with a perfect outline of the knife worn outside the front pocket. Some of my front pockets look like they are a chew toy for psychotic dogs.

The Bali in a pouch is inconspicuous and resembles a multi tool. You cant let strangers borrow your "multi tool" though....Which is a good idea anyways ;)

Bill
 
Greg,
Gunting or a Bali! Carry & like both!Keep trying to get you to experience the G!:D Off track,Still waiting on the new"Springblade" novel! Status!!
JIM
 
Greg,
You aren't willing to try the G? Seems to me someone like yourself would be eager to experience new and innovative knife designs.
 
One2go,
I don't think it's not wanting to ,with Greg,I think it's a matter of timing! I wonder where he finds the time to do the things he does!!I was just trying to rag him a little!:D No offence intended Greg!!
JIM
 
Plink carried his very simple and inexpensive butterfly knife in his pants pocket. It was, as I recall, medium in size. He was/is very deft in removing/opening the knife. Second nature to him. Very impressive.

He used it for eveything daily. Very much utility blade for Steve.

Just ordered the BM 3" Bali with pocket clip from Loffer at Cutlery Shoppe. Conventional edge. Thanks, guys. Didn't even know it was available:)

Timing is everything and I'm sure I'll end up working with a Gunting sooner or later.

Just completing co-authorship with Dr. George Thompson of the Verbal Judo Institute. Then doing new "Greg" book. Verbal Judo book is titled "The Tao of Verbal Judo Leadership".

Yeppers, always busy :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top