The ZT no one is talking about! ZT0804CF

NJBillK said:
For ZT dlc coatings, you can weaken the hold with hydrogen peroxide soak for 1.5 hours or so and sand under running water for a nice blackwash look.

While it may void a warranty, it will get someone a different look for a user.
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That looks great! I guess personally I am a little different. I like the coated blades for the reason that the more you use them the more wear it shows. Almost like a badge of honor... you can't fake the marks in fresh DLC, although you did come close with that 0770!


Fanglekai said:
What sets this one apart from all the other titanium framelock flippers with single scale that ZT makes?
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What sets most knives apart from each other these days? Maker, high end materials, collaboration with well known custom makers, size, fit and finish, made in the USA, etc...

I guess you have to decide what matters to you most in order to find that perfect knife. Or in your case which company you hate the the most. Apples to cantaloupes right?

I have to say for a well known Kershaw and ZT hater you sure are persistent.

Cheers
 
whitty said:
I have not met a ZT I do not like. I could sit around all day and talk about Zero Tolerance Knives and not get bored. I guess you can say I am a pretty big fan. I don't think I am alone here.

With that said I feel like there has not been much dialogue lately about any of the 2016 models. They have not been out long so I certainly understand, but they are definitely more readily available now. The one knife that actually shocks me the most though is how little talk there has been about the ZT0804CF. I am beyond impressed with this knife and truly feel ZT did not hold back anything top quality in making it. I am curious for those that have them or are considering them, what are your thoughts?


https://flic.kr/p/EAuvAo https://www.flickr.com/photos/57703464@N02/
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I don't have any ZTs, but I like the lines on the 804. Sort of reminds me of a folding BOSS Street:

BOSS-Street.jpg
 
Mqqn, great take down pics. Love seeing those. I agree with insipid. I do not like machined pocket clips. That kills this one for me. The rest of the knife looks great though.
 
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I havent been keeping up with the current models mainly because my interests have shifted a bit, but I have to admit, that looks like a good one!
 
I like the looks of it and material, but does not fit my budget. Looks like a great knife otherwise.
 
whitty said:
I have not met a ZT I do not like. I could sit around all day and talk about Zero Tolerance Knives and not get bored. I guess you can say I am a pretty big fan. I don't think I am alone here.

With that said I feel like there has not been much dialogue lately about any of the 2016 models. They have not been out long so I certainly understand, but they are definitely more readily available now. The one knife that actually shocks me the most though is how little talk there has been about the ZT0804CF. I am beyond impressed with this knife and truly feel ZT did not hold back anything top quality in making it. I am curious for those that have them or are considering them, what are your thoughts?
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There are pluses and minuses. Of course, great quality and materials. It's a big folder albeit relatively light for its size due to the liner-less Carbon Fiber on the presentation side. More models like stonewashed and blackwashed may attract a greater audience since some have an aversion to coated knives. However, some will continue to stay away due to various reasons. Some of these reasons are: size, flipper only opening mechanism, titanium frame lock, etc.
 
Does anyone have a top view photo(s) showing the backbone of this knife open and/or closed? Doesn't really matter which. If you have the 0452 and 0804 top views side by side that would be awesome.

I'm debating getting the 0804 or the 0452. Don't really want/Able to buy both as I'm already pushing the envelope with wife right now on knife purchases with the recent acquisitions of the 0450CF and a BM 710. :rolleyes:
 
aleforme said:
Does anyone have a top view photo(s) showing the backbone of this knife open and/or closed? Doesn't really matter which. If you have the 0452 and 0804 top views side by side that would be awesome.

I'm debating getting the 0804 or the 0452. Don't really want/Able to buy both as I'm already pushing the envelope with wife right now on knife purchases with the recent acquisitions of the 0450CF and a BM 710. :rolleyes:
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Hope these will help? Just did them quickly with my phone.

https://flic.kr/p/G96ZW4 https://www.flickr.com/photos/57703464@N02/

https://flic.kr/p/FPQLWo https://www.flickr.com/photos/57703464@N02/

https://flic.kr/p/G6MSRS https://www.flickr.com/photos/57703464@N02/
 
I really dont get why ZT uses a hardened steel washer to protect the carbon fiber side of the bearing cutout but, then doesnt on the soft titanium side. This is one of the main reasons I dont buy any titanium framed ZT's. It's just poor engineering and wears very quickly due to this oversight/design flaw. Spyderco got it right with their Domino and Dice flippers. I really wish ZT would take the hint. I would probably buy more of their knives if they did, including this one.
 
Those are perfect. Thanks Whitty. Looks like the 0804 might be a tad bit narrower. I do think I like the open design of the 0452 better though.
 
Tachead7075 said:
I really dont get why ZT uses a hardened steel washer to protect the carbon fiber side of the bearing cutout but, then doesnt on the soft titanium side. This is one of the main reasons I dont buy any titanium framed ZT's. It's just poor engineering and wears very quickly due to this oversight/design flaw. Spyderco got it right with their Domino and Dice flippers. I really wish ZT would take the hint. I would probably buy more of their knives if they did, including this one.
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Probably because the Ti side work hardens and it is not a problem contrary to what you believe, and the carbon fiber side has a fairly rough surface texture that would be felt in the action of the balls rolling over it if it were left uncovered.

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Probably because the Ti side work hardens and it is not a problem contrary to what you believe, and the carbon fiber side has a fairly rough surface texture that would be felt in the action of the balls rolling over it if it were left uncovered.

best

mqqn
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It is a problem. The hardened bearings wear a deep channel into the titanium in a fairly short period of time causing bearing play and defeating the purpose of the ball bearing flipper design. Then the knife is pivoting on the bearing cage instead of the balls like it should be. This is why no blade play is detected over time as it wears. It is a poor engineering/design decision. This is why other Ti scaled flippers like the Domino and Dice use hardened washers for the balls to ride on. It greatly extends the bearing life by allowing the balls to ride on a material of similar hardness(like a standard one piece bearing) and keeps the tolerances tight so the bearing is working how it was designed to(riding on the balls instead of the cage). I find it very ironic that a company called Zero Tolerance would engineer a knife in a way that it quickly wears and expands it tolerances. Especially when it would cost very little to machine the bearing pocket deeper and add a hardened washer like they already do on their CF scaled models.
 
Tachead7075 said:
It is a problem. The hardened bearings wear a deep channel into the titanium in a fairly short period of time causing bearing play and defeating the purpose of the ball bearing flipper design. Then the knife is pivoting on the bearing cage instead of the balls like it should be. This is why no blade play is detected over time as it wears. It is a poor engineering/design decision. This is why other Ti scaled flippers like the Domino and Dice use hardened washers for the balls to ride on. It greatly extends the bearing life by allowing the balls to ride on a material of similar hardness(like a standard one piece bearing) and keeps the tolerances tight so the bearing is working how it was designed to(riding on the balls instead of the cage). I find it very ironic that a company called Zero Tolerance would engineer a knife in a way that it quickly wears and expands it tolerances. Especially when it would cost very little to machine the bearing pocket deeper and add a hardened washer like they already do on their CF scaled models.
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Show us some examples of this wear.
 
Colorodo said:
Show us some examples of this wear.
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You can just take one of your well used ZT Ti scaled models apart and see it for yourself. The knives I had showed wear very quickly(I no longer have them).

But, if you need some pics and videos there are some on the net. Here are a couple I found quickly for reference. I have no idea how much these were used and they arent the greatest pics to show the wear but, should let you get an idea of it.

Skip to 8:00min to see it up close.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th4uWqqVnz4

http://i.imgur.com/7i3ieZh.jpg

http://thrumylens.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/FY7A7493-Edit-Edit.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7wP2o1N.jpg

Grade 5 titanium(which most scales are made from) is relatively soft, even when hardened, compared to a hardened steel ball bearing so, it just makes sense to use a similar material for it to ride against. That is why standard one piece bearings use a hardened steel cage of similar hardness. This is probably why Eric Glesser chose to use hardened washers on the Domino and Dice as well.

I like ZT's but just wish they would change this one design aspect. It is a simple fix and I would gladly pay a few dollars more for this addition.
 
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HI Tachhead -

None of the pictures you show provide anything but reinforcement of the point that the bearings do not "wear into" the titanium, but there will be witness marks on the ti where the balls do run, that is perfectly normal.

I have never seen or heard of one instance on any knife where the balls of a raced bearing put a groove into the Ti to the point where the race made contact.

IF you had that happen I would like to see the result, as that would not be good.

However, your assertion that a small washer would somehow resolve the problem, or the perceived problem, is valid; it would not cost much to provide the extra washer.

That must mean that the experts that make the knives, that know metallurgy and have professional expertise in this field don't believe it necessary, and I doubt it was a dollar cost decision, if you see my point.

I wonder if one could order a thin washer from alpha to insert into the bearing pocket if one were bothered by the design? It could not cost more than a buck or two.

best

mqqn
 
Tachead7075 said:
It is a problem. The hardened bearings wear a deep channel into the titanium in a fairly short period of time
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No they don't.
I've had mine for quite some time, used them a bunch, and that has never happened.
 
stabman said:
No they don't.
I've had mine for quite some time, used them a bunch, and that has never happened.
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Take one of your well used knives apart and look. I guarantee there will be at least some wear into the titanium. It's a certainty because the grade 5 Ti used for a make shift race is much softer then the balls that are riding on it. It will be even more pronounced when hard use comes into play. I have personal experience and found a number of pictures and videos to represent it in all but a couple of minutes. You have to remember that thousandths of an inch makes a difference in a bearing. There is a reason why one piece bearings don't use titanium races even in applications where grams matter. You can argue all you want but, it's a poor engineering design. Put your post purchase rationalization bias aside and you will see that using a hardened steel washer like on the CF side would be a better design. That's why Eric did it on his Ti scaled flippers and that's why others do as well.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Tachead7075 said:
Take one of your well used knives apart and look. I guarantee there will be at least some wear into the titanium. lk
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The pictures you posted showed minimal wear...and there were marks on the steel of the blade too!
Guess they should have used harder steel, eh?

There's a difference between slight marks and a "deep channel"...you claimed the creation of a deep channel.
That simply does not happen.
 
I love the 804cf.. I am not crazy about the DLC coated blade, but my main issue the cost. I think it is 80-100$ over priced.
 
Some wear which is normal compared to excessive wear which you have not been able to produce. Go troll somewhere else.
 
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