Thinking about hanging up my hat

[ShaiHulud]

[Long winded] I am thinking about hanging up my hat on locking knives, and going slipjoint.
I recently found that I have not really required the lock on locking knives in order to use the knife. Not too long ago I let go of a bunch of locking knives in favor of swiss army knives. I have discovered that the blades on these knives have done everything [for me] that I once looked to locking knives to do. I have discovered that on multiple occasions I reached for the classic than the kershaw next to it because the classic blade is sharper and quite frankly. Would get the job done quicker. I have been following the US knife market for years and saw the trends and I have to say: I'm just not impressed anymore with what is coming out, what they make it out of, and how much they want. I tried to deny it, and say to myself I need a locking knife because it's better, stronger; but if I'm being honest with myself, I'm using the knife as if the lock isn't there. I simply don't need the lock.

 

[rubberdog]

Having moved to the UK a few years ago the decision to go slipjoint was made for me.

 

[eveled]

I don’t know why it had to be such a big decision.

I have several large drawers full of knives. I carry whatever I want to. Some lock, some don’t some fold some don’t.

 

[Guy McVer]

I have been following the US knife market for years and saw the trends and I have to say: I'm just not impressed anymore with what is coming out, what they make it out of, and how much they want.

I call this the youtube effect. It's the result of years of garbage youtube content made for easy digestion and not being too critical for fear of angering the manufacturers. It has trained people to be brainless parrots who digest and regurgitate the popular superficial nonsense and open their wallets for whatever is considered trendy. It has tainted most of the industry.

I think a similar thing has happened with flashlights, where people only seem to care about the total lumen output and other superficial things like having a fancy titanium housing. It's good for clicks but not good for quality and usability.

There's a kind of sycophantic effect where people act more in line with what is agreeable rather than what is factual or practical. It's a social adaptation which probably helped our ancestors live in groups, but it totally kills critical thinking and independent thought. Youtube and other forms of social media can drive this type of behavior quite powerfully.

 

[ShaiHulud]

Having moved to the UK a few years ago the decision to go slipjoint was made for me.

Bittersweet, mostly sweet

 

[ShaiHulud]

I call this the youtube effect. It's the result of years of garbage youtube content made for easy digestion and not being too critical for fear of angering the manufacturers. It has trained people to be brainless parrots who digest and regurgitate the popular superficial nonsense and open their wallets for whatever is considered trendy. It has tainted most of the industry.

I think a similar thing has happened with flashlights, where people only seem to care about the total lumen output and other superficial things like having a fancy titanium housing. It's good for clicks but not good for quality and usability.

There's a kind of sycophantic effect where people act more in line with what is agreeable rather than what is factual or practical. It's a social adaptation which probably helped our ancestors live in groups, but it totally kills critical thinking and independent thought. Youtube and other forms of social media can drive this type of behavior quite powerfully.

It is braver to march alone than with a crowd going in the wrong direction, however all too easily people find it better to just "conform" with the acceptable model by "me too-ing"

 

[jackknife]

[Long winded] I am thinking about hanging up my hat on locking knives, and going slipjoint.
I recently found that I have not really required the lock on locking knives in order to use the knife. Not too long ago I let go of a bunch of locking knives in favor of swiss army knives. I have discovered that the blades on these knives have done everything [for me] that I once looked to locking knives to do. I have discovered that on multiple occasions I reached for the classic than the kershaw next to it because the classic blade is sharper and quite frankly. Would get the job done quicker. I have been following the US knife market for years and saw the trends and I have to say: I'm just not impressed anymore with what is coming out, what they make it out of, and how much they want. I tried to deny it, and say to myself I need a locking knife because it's better, stronger; but if I'm being honest with myself, I'm using the knife as if the lock isn't there. I simply don't need the lock.

ShaiHulud, you have made a very important discovery in life, and it's called the BS in marketing. The truth behind the marketing of what most people buy is sheer Bullhockey. Crap. outright lies to get your money out of your pocket and into theirs.

The knife industry is no different than the gun industry, car industry, whatever. It's all about "upsizing" the customer by convincing them that they need much more than they really do and offing them a "better" product that of course costs much more. Does the average Joe going about his life in modern suburbia need a hundred dollar plus lockblade knife to open the mail, cut a plastic package, or a piece of twine? No, of course not. Nor will he need to do any of the fantasy crap the knife industry would hav you believe like taking out an enemy sentry, or surviving in the Alaska bush country.

One has to ask oneself, how does many, many people, everyday, go through their life with no knife on them at all???? How did the old pioneers and homesteaders on the frontier get by with just simple slip joints in their pockets like is seen on the steamboat Arabia photos? The truth is, not much knife is really needed, and a simple slip joint has been an effective work knife for hundreds of years. Heck, before the 1800's, most folding knives were actually friction folders with no spring at all. Like Opinels with no locking ring. Hell, before 1955, Opinel did not have the locking ring. It was only on the advise of a lawyer that Opinel incorporated a lock at all. My little Opinel number 5 that I used for years didn't have the lock and it made no difference in day to day use. I had no lock on my Japanese Higonokami, or my Sardinian Resolza that I put a lot of miles with a lot of cuts on them.

But be very careful Shai, this enlightenment can lead to independent thinking that will let you realize that most things sold and marketed are overkill for the use. Embracing the Maximum minimalism is dangerous. It can make you start questioning many things, including your decisions.

 

[Fonedork]

Pics of the hat pls

 

[ShaiHulud]

ShaiHulud, you have made a very important discovery in life, and it's called the BS in marketing. The truth behind the marketing of what most people buy is sheer Bullhockey. Crap. outright lies to get your money out of your pocket and into theirs.

The knife industry is no different than the gun industry, car industry, whatever. It's all about "upsizing" the customer by convincing them that they need much more than they really do and offing them a "better" product that of course costs much more. Does the average Joe going about his life in modern suburbia need a hundred dollar plus lockblade knife to open the mail, cut a plastic package, or a piece of twine? No, of course not. Nor will he need to do any of the fantasy crap the knife industry would hav you believe like taking out an enemy sentry, or surviving in the Alaska bush country.

One has to ask oneself, how does many, many people, everyday, go through their life with no knife on them at all???? How did the old pioneers and homesteaders on the frontier get by with just simple slip joints in their pockets like is seen on the steamboat Arabia photos? The truth is, not much knife is really needed, and a simple slip joint has been an effective work knife for hundreds of years. Heck, before the 1800's, most folding knives were actually friction folders with no spring at all. Like Opinels with no locking ring. Hell, before 1955, Opinel did not have the locking ring. It was only on the advise of a lawyer that Opinel incorporated a lock at all. My little Opinel number 5 that I used for years didn't have the lock and it made no difference in day to day use. I had no lock on my Japanese Higonokami, or my Sardinian Resolza that I put a lot of miles with a lot of cuts on them.

But be very careful Shai, this enlightenment can lead to independent thinking that will let you realize that most things sold and marketed are overkill for the use. Embracing the Maximum minimalism is dangerous. It can make you start questioning many things, including your decisions.

To my learnings as I watched the comings and going on all the major retailers, mostly online, is that knife manufacturers love collectors, they want you to collect, if someone came from nowhere and bought 1 knife from them then disappeared that night and never came back, the knife manufacturer didn't really make any real money on that guy, it isn't until they have bought multiple mid to high end knives that they begin making making good money, and when hundreds of people do the same, at the same company/ manufacturer, then that company truly starts rolling in $. I only wished I have discovered this wisdom earlier, but alas wisdom is gained over years of aged experience and it can't be bought or rush-learned and usually learned with hard lessons along the way. Now slipjoints can't do everything but that's where a small(small) fixed blade comes into play, not some rhinoceros annihilater

 

[jackknife]

To my learnings as I watched the comings and going on all the major retailers, mostly online, is that knife manufacturers love collectors, they want you to collect, if someone came from nowhere and bought 1 knife from them then disappeared that night and never came back, the knife manufacturer didn't really make any real money on that guy, it isn't until they have bought multiple mid to high end knives that they begin making making good money, and when hundreds of people do the same, at the same company/ manufacturer, then that company truly starts rolling in $. I only wished I have discovered this wisdom earlier, but alas wisdom is gained over years of aged experience and it can't be bought or rush-learned and usually learned with hard lessons along the way. Now slipjoints can't do everything but that's where a small(small) fixed blade comes into play, not some rhinoceros annihilater

Totally!

It's a shame that I can only like a post once!!!

The money is to be made by repeat buying. This means they have to dream up ways to make the would be collector eager for the next fix. This is done by introducing the "new" steels that may be marginally better is some ways, but the regular knife guy will never cut enough cardboard at one time to see the difference. Never mind that pioneers made a whole new life on the frontier and working men the world over got by very well with Opinel's, Russell's Barlow knives, and friction folders and plain carbon steel. I can only guess the modern computer age and office cubicles are a tougher environment.

I only wish I had realized these things at a younger age. I really regret the time and money I spent on going to knife shows, buying knives I really didn't need, and looking at knife magazines that were nothing but shills for a artificially created market for over hyped, over designed and over priced knives that fulfilled a fantasy. It was fabulously liberating to sell and give them all away and go on with life with just a few slip joints, a few SAK's, and two fixed blades to handle tougher stuff. I did the same thing with my guns and it was like cutting a ball and chain loose from my leg. After a while, collections became a burden.

By the way, I love your phrase; "Rhinoceros annihilator. "

 

[ShaiHulud]

Totally!

It's a shame that I can only like a post once!!!

The money is to be made by repeat buying. This means they have to dream up ways to make the would be collector eager for the next fix. This is done by introducing the "new" steels that may be marginally better is some ways, but the regular knife guy will never cut enough cardboard at one time to see the difference. Never mind that pioneers made a whole new life on the frontier and working men the world over got by very well with Opinel's, Russell's Barlow knives, and friction folders and plain carbon steel. I can only guess the modern computer age and office cubicles are a tougher environment.

I only wish I had realized these things at a younger age. I really regret the time and money I spent on going to knife shows, buying knives I really didn't need, and looking at knife magazines that were nothing but shills for a artificially created market for over hyped, over designed and over priced knives that fulfilled a fantasy. It was fabulously liberating to sell and give them all away and go on with life with just a few slip joints, a few SAK's, and two fixed blades to handle tougher stuff. I did the same thing with my guns and it was like cutting a ball and chain loose from my leg. After a while, collections became a burden.

By the way, I love your phrase; "Rhinoceros annihilator. "

Rhinos have tough leather . I have spent thousands of dollars on knives I bought, lost, rebought, sold, bought again, given away, and while the type of knife changed a bit (I didn't rebuy the same model over and over except for thr 110) it ultimately amounted to nothing and lead to the lead to the same conclusion: excess. Collectors have so many knives but they can only use one at a time, so they remedy this by placing them on a rotation cycle, and maybe they feel less bad at that point, maybe not. I only wish I had all the money I spent on knives back, it's easily 20k at least. I inherited my dad's guns and getting rid of them was a lot harder due to legalities, I have his S&W .357 left and I'm completely fine with it. As far as locking knives are concerned, the amount of times I was glad for the lock is when I was doing something stupid with it. The grand majority of knife use doesn't need a lock at all. As they say here on the forums, "the act of cutting keeps the knife open" --- and as I recall you saying, "if what you're doing might make the knife close on you, use a fixed blade"

 

[Guy McVer]

Never mind that pioneers made a whole new life on the frontier and working men the world over got by very well with Opinel's, Russell's Barlow knives, and friction folders and plain carbon steel.

The stockman and the trapper are two of the most popular types of slipjoint knives in history. "Stockman" literally means cowboy. Stock is livestock aka cattle. Cows. Stock man = cow boy. The trapper knife also got it's name from the trapper profession (the fur trade).

 

[ShaiHulud]

The stockman and the trapper are two of the most popular types of slipjoint knives in history. "Stockman" literally means cowboy. Stock is livestock aka cattle. Cows. Stockman = cowboy. The trapper knife also got it's name from the trapper profession (the fur trade).

If only wish case knew how to make a better small stockman, i had 2 terrible and unsafe examples in a row, both in small

 

[jackknife]

The stockman and the trapper are two of the most popular types of slipjoint knives in history. "Stockman" literally means cowboy. Stock is livestock aka cattle. Cows. Stock man = cow boy. The trapper knife also got it's name from the trapper profession (the fur trade).

What's funny is, even these days living in Georgetown Texas, I see a lot of slip joints. Yes, there's the ever present clips in pockets, but a very common sight is, an open top belt sheath holding either a large stockman or trapper. The sheaths often have nice leatherwork like scroll and figures in the leather, like a fine gun holster. Between Georgetown and the town of Killeen there are some real working ranches with real cowboys. You can tell them when they come to town, their boots are dirty and look well worn instead of the shiny town cowboy that is all hat and no cattle.

These real working ranch hands seem to prefer the old slip joints like stockmen and trapper. Boker is a popular brand I see, as is Case and a company called Moore Maker that seems to be a middle market company that has Case or someone else make the stuff with their Moore Maker brand on it. So there you have it, the townie cowboys have the clipped lock blades, but the real working guys with the horseshit on their boots and sweat stained hats, carry larger stockmen and trappers.

A message there somewhere.

Edit to add; The construction guys seem to carry a mixed bag. My neighbor just had his driveway redone, the old cement that was broken up was removed, and new concrete poured. The concrete guys carried the open top leather belt sheath, with beat up old Case large sodbusters in them. The old yellow Case sodbuster has a strong following here among working guys. Apparently they have no fear of the blade folding on them.

 

[A.L.]

Pics of the hat pls

We need saks and hats thread!

 

[ShaiHulud]

What's funny is, even these days living in Georgetown Texas, I see a lot of slip joints. Yes, there's the ever present clips in pockets, but a very common sight is, an open top belt sheath holding either a large stockman or trapper. The sheaths often have nice leatherwork like scroll and figures in the leather, like a fine gun holster. Between Georgetown and the town of Killeen there are some real working ranches with real cowboys. You can tell them when they come to town, their boots are dirty and look well worn instead of the shiny town cowboy that is all hat and no cattle.

These real working ranch hands seem to prefer the old slip joints like stockmen and trapper. Boker is a popular brand I see, as is Case and a company called Moore Maker that seems to be a middle market company that has Case or someone else make the stuff with their Moore Maker brand on it. So there you have it, the townie cowboys have the clipped lock blades, but the real working guys with the horseshit on their boots and sweat stained hats, carry larger stockmen and trappers.

A message there somewhere.

Edit to add; The construction guys seem to carry a mixed bag. My neighbor just had his driveway redone, the old cement that was broken up was removed, and new concrete poured. The concrete guys carried the open top leather belt sheath, with beat up old Case large sodbusters in them. The old yellow Case sodbuster has a strong following here among working guys. Apparently they have no fear of the blade folding on them.

Pancake holsters are popular with the Texans and ranch folks, they look like they were made from the leather of old decorated cowboy boots, they are all over the place if you ever feel like owning one, it never grabbed at me, I guess I may have been leaning towards this in some regards because I never Liked the feeling of any sheath or holster riding my hip and tugging at my belt, I'd always pocket my knives.
I see mostly folding knives here in California among blue collar types and other people, lots of white collar techies here also who'd never be so "evil" as to carry a knife.
in California, they use political correctness here to try to discourage knife carrying, saying knives are bad and bad is bad don't do it . Fixed blade carrying is the most uncommon sight here, even though it's legal, if you want to see a lot of it: Alaska

 

[jackknife]

Pancake holsters are popular with the Texans and ranch folks, they look like they were made from the leather of old decorated cowboy boots, they are all over the place if you ever feel like owning one, it never grabbed at me, I guess I may have been leaning towards this in some regards because I never Liked the feeling of any sheath or holster riding my hip and tugging at my belt, I'd always pocket my knives.
I see mostly folding knives here in California among blue collar types and other people, lots of white collar techies here also who'd never be so "evil" as to carry a knife.
in California, they use political correctness here to try to discourage knife carrying, saying knives are bad and bad is bad don't do it . Fixed blade carrying is the most uncommon sight here, even though it's legal, if you want to see a lot of it: Alaska

I have noticed that there seems to be way less visible pocket clips on view here in Cali. Yesterday, we went down to Huntington Beach, walked on the beach, had a drink at a place on the board walk, and very few signs of a knife carry, unlike back in Texas. I don't really understand it, I've had as much use for a sharp knife here as back home. Food packages are still made out or impenetrable plastic, there's mail to open, and other small jobs that teeth and nails are not so good at.

 

[ShaiHulud]

I have noticed that there seems to be way less visible pocket clips on view here in Cali. Yesterday, we went down to Huntington Beach, walked on the beach, had a drink at a place on the board walk, and very few signs of a knife carry, unlike back in Texas. I don't really understand it, I've had as much use for a sharp knife here as back home. Food packages are still made out or impenetrable plastic, there's mail to open, and other small jobs that teeth and nails are not so good at.

Boardwalk doesn't roll out metal detectors by the santa Cruz location but with all the security and family environment most people I assume just leave it in their cars, or drop it in the pocke. that or they don't want to lose their pocket.
Plastic clamshells are rage inducing for sure --- home depot sells you a gerber products WITH the anti theft thing still fed through, so you need a knife and wire cutters to open your item Knives are essential. However if half the cost in the knife is in the handle thennnnn....

 

[Guy McVer]

Plastic clamshells are rage inducing for sure --- home depot sells you a gerber products WITH the anti theft thing still fed through, so you need a knife and wire cutters to open your item Knives are essential.

I bought a set of deep sockets and they were on that plastic frame setup with a sliding rail and a retention bar on the opposite side with beams going through the middle of each socket. I had a hell of a time getting the sockets loose. In the end I used a hacksaw to cut through the plastic retention bar between each socket, and then I still had to twist every individual one of the connecting beams out with a set of pliers. It has to be one of the most frustrating and insane packaging designs ever invented. A simple cardboard box would have been better, but I guess you have to prevent theft any way you can.

 

[Daedric Panther]

I have noticed that there seems to be way less visible pocket clips on view here in Cali. Yesterday, we went down to Huntington Beach, walked on the beach, had a drink at a place on the board walk, and very few signs of a knife carry, unlike back in Texas. I don't really understand it, I've had as much use for a sharp knife here as back home. Food packages are still made out or impenetrable plastic, there's mail to open, and other small jobs that teeth and nails are not so good at.

Really? I see a lot of clipped folders around here in SoCal, along with SAKs on keys and a fair number of folding utility blade knives like the Milwaukee fastback. Traditionals aren’t super common in the wild, and belt carry seems almost reserved to bikers toting fixed blades of various sizes and construction workers with leatherman tools. The cowboy style pancake sheath carry mentioned above is basically non existent here or I’ve never seen it.