Thinking about open-carrying a dagger

jackknife said:
This post nails the whole thing. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Why, when handicapping yourself by carrying a knife as your main self defense weapon, would you handicap yourself further by advertising to the whole world just what your carrying and where? Aside from some weird ego thing?

In a world with lots of handguns floating around, it doesn't seem like a very good idea. Especially in California.
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This post nails it. Carry a firearm, concealed. Don't carry a knife on display. Tactically dumb.
 
CODE TEXT
PENAL CODE - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
TITLE 3. WEAPONS AND DEVICES OTHER THAN FIREARMS [19910 - 23025]
( Title 3 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
DIVISION 5. KNIVES AND SIMILAR WEAPONS [20200 - 21590]
( Division 5 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 1. General Provisions [20200- 20200.]
( Chapter 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

20200.

A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer is not concealed within the meaning of Section 16140, 16340, 17350, or 21310.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)
 
Especially with knives, I think it's a good idea to train for a self defense situation if you make the choice to carry a knife dominantly for this reason. This takes time, effort, and often money. I know I'd be close to useless defending myself with a knife unless I just got lucky.

Carrying a dagger (double edged) will almost always be viewed as a weapon by law enforcement regardless of legalities in terms of carry. It's your choice.
 
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First, I second what most people are saying regarding carrying a more useful/"people friendly" knife. A knife for self defense is a terrible idea from what I've learned anyways specially if you're not trained. While I love daggers and they form the majority of my collection I do not carry them.

Second thing to consider is, city and county laws. I live in Los Angeles and here the law is technically that anything you carry OPENLY has to be 3 inches or less in blade length. Some people think that this means for folders you can carry any length inside your pocket but that may be debatable. I carry folding knives that are less than 3 inches in blade length just to be safe. Because of California laws you cannot carry a fixed blade concealed of any length. So, here in LA you may carry a fixed blade knife as long as it is done openly and as long as it has a blade of 3 inches of length. In my 4 years here in Los Angeles I've only seen one dude carry a knife openly and overall he looked like a freak show, lol. Folders make better sense.
 
Just a couple of thoughts....

I live in "Military City, USA", also known as San Antonio, TX. One of the guys I have been friends with for years is a bona fide, no $hit, decorated Special Forces retiree. (As opposed to "almost", "had the same training", "was on the ready", "trained at the local martial arts dojo", "went with them on a mission"...)
Two silver stars and four purple hearts.

I have shown him some of the stuff in Prac/Tac, and he laughs like he is reading the Sunday comics. To say he is amused is a real understatement. According to him, unless you are professionally trained for a few months with a knife as weapon and go through a continuing familiarity course every few months, a knife is better used to open rations. I believe him as I have actually seen part of his service record so he has plenty of the action he trained for during his time in service.

His best advice to me about using a knife for self defense (no long term professional training as above) was to take out my knife, hope it scares someone. He asked me, "really?" "You want to be 4 or 5 inches from an angry attacker?" His opinion is that if you don't have years of professional training (or even it has been a while), carry a gun. As he said, any idiot can pop off a round.

To me, carrying something like a dagger sends a real message about who you think you are or at least what you want people to believe you are.

On another track, an acquaintance of mine was arrested for walking down the street with his semi auto assault rifle. Has a permit, the gun is registered, and he was well within his lawful rights in Texas. But with all the mayhem with weapons these days he got what he wanted, a LOT of attention. The police confronted him and he went home. After thinking about it for a few days, he and a few of his friends decided that their civil rights had been violated and they weren't going to take abuse from "stupid cops that didn't know the law". They organized a small protest and they contacted the press/TV to let them know that they weren't going to be harassed or tolerate any civil rights violations by the police state.

I laughed my ass off at the outcome. He and his fellow knotheads that were looking for a problem decided to argue with the police (hey... when were they going to get another chance to be on TV?). This is Texas... a vigorous argument with the police ended with all of them being arrested and their guns impounded... for creating a public nuisance!

As stated above, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Robert
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
First, I second what most people are saying regarding carrying a more useful/"people friendly" knife. A knife for self defense is a terrible idea from what I've learned anyways specially if you're not trained. While I love daggers and they form the majority of my collection I do not carry them.

Second thing to consider is, city and county laws. I live in Los Angeles and here the law is technically that anything you carry OPENLY has to be 3 inches or less in blade length. Some people think that this means for folders you can carry any length inside your pocket but that may be debatable. I carry folding knives that are less than 3 inches in blade length just to be safe. Because of California laws you cannot carry a fixed blade concealed of any length. So, here in LA you may carry a fixed blade knife as long as it is done openly and as long as it has a blade of 3 inches of length. In my 4 years here in Los Angeles I've only seen one dude carry a knife openly and overall he looked like a freak show, lol. Folders make better sense.
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Guess I'm a bit confused as to CA legalities in terms of knives. Charlie Mike openly carries a fairly large fixed blade in CA. Are there a lot of variences between municipalities?
 
22-rimfire said:
Guess I'm a bit confused as to CA legalities in terms of knives. Charlie Mike openly carries a fairly large fixed blade in CA. Are there a lot of variences between municipalities?
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Yes that seems to be the case. I can only speak for San Diego and Los Angeles where I've lived. San Diego pretty much goes by California standards. They don't have a limit as to what blade length you carry. LA made that 3 inch rule because some time in the past a bunch of stupid cholos were threatening people in parks with machetes. Some ruin it for all, as usual. I have found that the 3 inches is more than enough for my needs. At least things here are not like in Spain(where my wife is from) where basically one can't even carry a petite swiss army knife.
 
You know, it's a fact that we all love our knives here on a knife based forum. It's taken for granted that we're the obsessed knife knuts that have a Cult Worship relationship with the edged tools.

BUT...a very large three letter word, things ha ve to be kept in a certain perspective.

Fact, the knife makes a p--s poor self defense tool. When Sam Colt invented the first reliable repeating handgun, and John Moses Browning perfected the small self loading pistol, the knife took an instant backseat. The Bowie knife faded in both popularity and size. Now we're in the 21st century, a knife is still a handy thing to have in a pocket. But...that word again, if you plan on using a knife for self defense, go get a gun.

Sean Taylor was a pro NFL football player. He was big, fast, and strong. I highly doubt there are many chest beating keyboard commandos here that are his equal. Yet, because of an arrest, Sean Taylor couldn't have a gun in his house. When a couple punks broke into his home when he and his girlfriend were home, he was defensing himself with a large machete.

The punk that was armed, shot him with a 9mm in the leg, and Taylor bleed to death. Here was a big fast powerful NFL guy at close range in a bedroom rushing the guy with the gun, and he was killed by a skinny little punk with a gun. Range was about 10 feet. So much for the 21 foot drill and the delusional people that think if they are close enough that they will prevail over a gun.

You like daggers, fine. Collect them, mount them for display, fondle them like your "precious" to your hearts content. But don't delude yourself that you will do anything but get yourself killed using one for a defense weapon. You ain't Conan The Barbarian, or Rambo. Hollywood movies are fantasy stories, just that. If you are really serious about self defense, go down and get the paper work, take whatever course you have to get certified, pay for the finger printing and mug shot, and carry a gun. And then practice. Practice a lot. Or just carry some pepper spray. Leave the medieval weapons to history. At the battle of Agincourt the French army outnumbered the rag tag English by at least two to one, and heavily armored knights at that. But the English were archers. The French brought swords to a projectile fight and got slaughtered in spite of outnumbering the English and being more heavily armed. There's a lesson there.

Walk down the street with a nice dagger and it could actually create the wrong scenario. Some little gang banger could see it, want it, and stick a beat up Davis .380 in your face and order you to 'give it up.' Or he could just shoot you and take it.

Think very carefully before you go standing out by doing something less than smart.
 
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Per the penal code there is no length limit as long as it is carried openly. A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer is considered open carry and is legal. Penal code section 20200. Carrying a concealed dirk or dagger is illegal pursuant to Penal Code Section 12020(a)(4).
 
Man with no name said:
Per the penal code there is no length limit as long as it is carried openly. A knife carried in a sheath that is worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer is considered open carry and is legal. Penal code section 20200. Carrying a concealed dirk or dagger is illegal pursuant to Penal Code Section 12020(a)(4).
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Dirks and daggers have always been on the illegal list along with bali's and "switch blades" since I guess the 50's in most states. All of these things are technically legal (concealed or unconcealed) in TN where I live, but law enforcement can interpret intent and certainly cause you a lot of legal problems if they decide that your intent was for nefarious purposes. The old blade length limit in TN was 3.5" which I have always been comfortable with. Flippers and so forth were legal to carry even before the law change a year or so ago. There was never really any issue with folks carrying a knife in the woods unless somebody got into problems with said knife.

I tend to side with the jackknife view of things relative to knives and self defense. We differ a bit in terms of use of firearms, but not really much.
 
Sheath knives must be open carried, including dirk knives and daggers.

CHAPTER 4. Dirk or Dagger [21310 - 21390]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

21310.
Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who carries concealed upon the person any dirk or dagger is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

(Amended by Stats. 2012, Ch. 43, Sec. 94. Effective June 27, 2012.)
 
I don't believe in buying what you won't use and I believe in carrying what you like that you are within your legal right to carry. I do however agree with being practical and aware of how it will be taken and aware of how the police behave in your area. I would basically never carry anything that clips to a pocket in NY if I went and nothing with any convenient opening mechanics because they have yet to repeal their vaguely worded law. I also don't want to appear threatening to anyone both because there is no need to cause a general uneasiness to the general public nor do i wish to make myself any sort of target/obstacle for anyone with ill intent. I will admit that if I carried a firearm I would likely not have a concealed carry but since I don't have a carry permit at this time nor do I own a firearm that can be carried it isn't something I have given much thought to.
 
When I lived in cali I carried a dagger...


when I was rock climbing. For that it was practical. Easy deployment. One side was plain edge the other was fully serrated. I used the serrated edge to cut webbing and such and the straight edge for camp/everything else duty. It was handy.
I love daggers but they are fairly useless as an urban edc. Will definitely only cause worry to those around you and problems for you. Get a small, custom B&T or vest Bowie. They are a useful edc and quickly deployed.
 
Aside from the countless other things mentioned, when it comes to melee range is king. Maybe get a nice hardwood walking stick or something and practice with that? I know there are martial arts surrounding the use of canes/walking sticks. Nobody wins in a knife fight.

I do see plenty of people with fixed blade knives near the SF area (North Bay). Usually they are smaller hunting style knives and don't raise too many eyebrows. In actual SF they may, though. Depending on your county you *may* be able to get a CCW, which would obviously reign supreme. But a lot of our sheriff departments have deeply ingrained "good old boy" politics and cronyism and, well, good luck.
 
Can’t say much that hasn’t been said. But I feel like you should buy what makes you happy when you’re within your legal rights to do so. Buying and carrying are two different things however. I live in rural Virginia. Knives are everywhere. Awhile back I saw a guy cleaning his finger nails with a Mini-Griptillian in a crowded fast food line without anyone batting an eye. That being said, I would never open carry a dagger in public as an EDC. I feel no need to deal with potential legal trouble (whether I’m within my rights or not, which I believe I would be), or make anyone uncomfortable. Plus, in the event of an emergency (for me, an emergency needing a knife is most likely to be a person or animal getting tangled in a rope or some wire, etc), my waved EDC will be faster anyway. Just my two cents.
 
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Northwest Knives said:
Ok. Here is my take. I am former Law Enforcement and carried a SOCP dagger on my Tac Vest. You want something easy to deploy under duress. The Benchmade SOCP is not it. When you have elevated stress and adrenaline you will lose all of your fine motor skills and you will revert to Gross motor skills. Manipulating small objects and finger manipulation is near impossible. That is why most firearms training involves big movements and whole hand manipulation of the firearm.

With that being said.....you would be better off getting a knife with an Emerson wave and train with it for quick deployment. Everyday carry, you are used to where the knife is, gross motor skills under stress and a better weapon without the hassle by the police.

Just my 2 cents
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I appreciate the first hand experience you bring with your response. I’ve toyed with the Emerson Wave idea, but I’m skeptical that it’s any easier to manipulate under elevated stress and increased heart rate. It would require:

1. Pulling it out with a rearward enough motion (away from the attacker) to utilize the Wave feature,
2. Adjusting your grip once the knife is deployed since you’ll only be gripping half the knife at that point
3. Depending on your fighting style, you may need to flip the knife around like a karambit/dagger so it matches your boxing stance

Plus, after some searching on Knifecenter it appears that out of all the Emerson Wave knives for sale, the most popular is the Spyderco Karahawk... which also utilizes a ring.
 
Also, thank you to everyone who has commented. It’s been really great to read your responses and most of you will be happy to hear I will not be purchasing the SOCP or carrying a dagger.

Instead, I will keep my Griptilian and I just finalized the price for someone’s used handgun. I’ll be purchasing an HK USP 45 Compact SS for $725, and once the FFL transfer is complete I’ll be applying for my CCW permit. Thanks again for all the great responses!
 
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