This Trend Towards "Guardless" Knives

goldie

goldie

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I am not a fan of the recent trend of fixed blade knives that do not have a single or double guard in front of the handle.It seems to be getting more popular.Esee,Buck hoodlum, Kabar zombie knives. I do have 3 Busses,an Ash,Hellrazor & Jackhammer which seem to work for me,although i dont like the finger choils,either,but thats it.Camillus at the shot show introduced a bunch of new fixed blades,all the same way.Is it partly to save money & have 1 less part to add,just blank out & finish the blade & add handles? I guess im a traditionalist,just cant warm up to this trend. Anyone else like or dislike this trend?
 
goldie said:
I guess im a traditionalist,just cant warm up to this trend. Anyone else like or dislike this trend?
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Outside of fighting knives, what knives traditionally have guards? Seems to me that guards aren't very traditional at all on outdoors/hunting/camping/skinning knives.

That said, I am with you....I hate finger choils. Do not like my index finger on a blade.
 
I have never liked a guard on a knife, I think they just get in the way. I can understand them for some people, but not for me. Up until recently, I didn't care for choils, either. But my RatManDu has changed my mind somewhat on them.
 
IIRC, the Finnish tradition regards puukkos with guards as children's knives. The logic being a grown man is expected to know to keep his fingers the hell away from the cutting edge and doesn't need a guard, I guess.

For me guards just get in the way 90% of the time when I'm using a knife. I can see them coming in handy if you need to stab someone or something and don't want your hand to slip onto the blade, but they're not a necessity for me.
 
As stated, I find that guards get in the way for most duties. If you're cutting against a flat surface, the guard inhibits the full use of the blade.

If you're stabbing things for some reason, then a guard might make sense. Otherwise, it's a liability rather than an asset, IMO.
 
I suspect that part of it has to do with cost, at least with production knives. Also, the seeming "need" for a full tang, even one that had been skeletonized to the point that it really doesn't have any more steel left than a burly hidden tang, means that slab handles with no guard will be even easier to produce. On the other hand, some knives are guard less because the maker likes the look. The thing that puzzles me more is why some VERY expensive tactical knives still have thin, flat handle scales with square edges.
 
Yeah, those Spikes from Cold Steel look cool, but they make me cringe to think about my hand slipping onto the blade.
Look at this one for slipage during penetration
CS11HMS.jpg
 
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jdm61, I agree. The whole "tactical" thing has taken usable fixed blades and made them in to skeletonized full tang, sharpened pry bars. Doesn't make much sense to me either.
 
This is not a trend. Or at least not a recent one. The only knives i have with a guard is Randall's, and I don't use them.

Fighting knives still have guards, as they always have. Most hunting/outdoor knives(Randall being one of the main one's that does) do not use them.

Gene Ingram, Charles May, and Bob Dozier make my favorite hunting knives. They have been making knives for a while, and none use a guard. Well, Bob does use them on a few of his knives, but his best sellers by far are micarta on steel.


edit- my reason for not liking big finger guards is that they can get in the way, and are not needed unless on a fighting knife. I was a butcher and owned a game processing business for many years, and never used a knife with a guard.
 
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It all depends on the application of the knife, the design of the handle, and the material its made of. Tactical knives, of course, often have guards. Some knives used for field dressing big game use a half guard so if your hands are covered in slippery blood it keeps your hand off the edge. Bushcraft knives used for all sorts of tasks including light carving jobs often don't have guards which only get in the way. For me, it all comes down to specific application. You can make anything work with some adjustment, though it might not be optimal.
 
(marcinek)
Many blackjack,bark river knives have at least a single guard,buck vanguard,not just fighters.As far as pukko knives, they are handy,great for close in cutting or fine work,just dont like the idea of the wood handles,kraton would be better for a more secure grip.had a helle knife,but the wood was slippery.
 
A knife without a guard purposefully has a pommel design which one can use as a backstop against the palm of your hand. That's one traditional usage when piercing is needed with such a knife. Just look at a push dagger. It's the same principal. Having said that, it is very easy to accidentally slide onto the blade while carving, skinning or whatever, if you bump into things with the tip (bones for instance), if you're not holding onto the handle well enough, or you use too much force, or you're not using the palm-against-the-pommel technique. This problem can also be remedied by locking your pinky behind the pommel, so that the hand doesn't go forward onto the blade, should you bump into anything. Same goes for the thumb in the reverse grip. These knives are not designed for stabbing though, so don't do that.
 
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goldie said:
(marcinek)
Many blackjack,bark river knives have at least a single guard,buck vanguard,not just fighters.As far as pukko knives, they are handy,great for close in cutting or fine work,just dont like the idea of the wood handles,kraton would be better for a more secure grip.had a helle knife,but the wood was slippery.
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Some do. But look at the North Star, Canadian Special, Aurora, Liten Bror, Fox River, etc etc. The "big guns" in their "outdoors" lines. Not a guard in the bunch. Small "bump" on the front of the grip. That's it.

There's nothing "traditionalist" at all about a guard on a "outdoors" knife. Look at the skinners used in frontier America days. No guards.

Heck, look at some of the original Bowie knives. Fighters all. Coffin handles on many, no guards. Like this one supposedly made by James Black (whatever that means)

5_Carrigan.jpg


Tough to find a more "traditional" fighter than that.

That said....you like a guard....you like a guard. Nothing wrong with that at all. :thumbup:
 
"A guard on a bush knife is in the way and detracts from many operations. It prevents the use of a simple, secure deep sheath. Some people prefer a guard for fear of slipping forward onto the knife edge, but unless the knife is used for stabbing, the hand should never slip in this way. In all my years of instructing I do not recall an injury due to the lack of a guard."

Mors Kochanski, Bushcraft: Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival
 
I'm far from an expert, but I thought that older knives had either no guard or small guard on them. Take a look at the old Marbles woodcraft for instance. My meaning is that big guards are a new convention. Frankly I like a small guard that integral to the handle ala my BRKT Aurora. I haven't slipped yet and yes my knife gets used.

Fighters and Bowie's are entirely different and should have at least one guard.

Mark
 
Knives like the Cold Steel Holdout and similar are designed to use palm-reinforced forward grip or reverse grip thumb-capped butt. Guard is never really to stop your sliding hand from going forward...that is a bad design and you will loose force. Handle shape and using the butt of the handle is to stop knife/hand movement. Guards were there to stop other weapons from hitting your fingers and the top of your hand. Smaller, ornamental guards and catches are mostly 20th century designs.

Most 7-13in. bladed knives were backup weapons/utility knives for centuries, better without a guard that might catch on clothing when drawn for emergency or get in the way of utility work - not true dueling or primary battle weapons. Most of the large seax knives that were old European ancestors to Bowie knives, did not have a guard.
 
Maybe I'm just new here, but it seems like the the KaBar ZK knives generally DO have some sort of a guard. I mean, what else do you call that lower portion that sticks out in front of your hand and between your hand and the blade?

5701.jpg


Also, for instance, Becker knives don't have "guards" but their handles form such a pocket that I find that it would be almost impossible to stab something hard enough have your hand slide forward onto the blade. Do these count as "guards" or are they not in the same category?

Also, I can understand (non-fighting) knives not having upper guards, as they can get in the way for field work. For instance, the KaBar MK1 has no top guard like the very similarly sized short USMC knife, but it still DOES have the lower guard.
 
all depends on what ya want...\

I am not a fan of guards myself even though I am working on one right now tha has a single guard...

IIRC Ed Fowler will not produce a knife without a guard and he knows a thing or 2 about making knives

AND my favorite edc right now is a Gossman Tusk without a guard...
 
I guess i never thought about the points made here.i guess sometimes these knives look funny or like something is missing....
 
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