Traditional Japanese Katana....Made with Tamahagane....How Much??

[crimsonfalcon07]

Thanks. I can indeed see it now. Beautiful blade. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Kohai999]

CF, Perhaps the file was too large, though it was only 82K. I resized it and it seems to work now, just so small you can barely see it.
View attachment 558057

Lovely hamon......chu kissaki and a LOT of (looks like) tori sori. Nice piece!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Professor_Jack]

This post has been proven essentially entirely wrong, removed to prevent further response/argument

 

[NihontoEd]

Wow, what a wealth of misinformation contained in your post. Where do you people come from ??
Hope your PHD isn't related to Japanese history Jack.

They make one to two swords, which are almost all ONLY going to be displayed in japan.

Wrong ! Japanese swordsmith's are allowed to make and sell two Katana per month, along with wakizashi, tanto and kogatana.

It's not that they frown on americans buying them, it's that NO ONE gets to buy them in a real sense.

Wrong ! They don't make a living by not selling them.

In short, unless you become an immensely wealthy, connected, and respected individual in Japan, you aren't getting one made for you.

Wrong !!!

Unfortunately, historical katanas are themselves scarce

Wrong!

During WW2, the japanese military issued katanas to its officers, and rather than make them (being under trade embargoes and at war) the government had families give up their swords for the military's use. Most of these swords didn't fit the specifications for the modern officer's sword, so they were often cut down, and the ones that weren't in good enough shape to be used were melted down and made into new swords.

Wrong, wrong and wrong !!!

Congratulations, you have peaked the meter:

 

[Professor_Jack]

Wow, what a wealth of misinformation contained in your post. Where do you people come from ??
Hope your PHD isn't related to Japanese history Jack.

Hey, here's an idea, instead of being a dickhat, why don't you explain what I got wrong and then provide the alternative (and hopefully correct) information?
That way, everybody gets to learn something! You get all the satisfaction of telling someone you know more than they do, and you educate them and other users in the correct information. Then, people congratulate or even thank you for responding, instead of just saying "wow, what an asshole"

Now, everything I said, I learned from a good deal of research, and although it was some time ago, I'd like to think I remember most of it. Therefore, if I'm wrong, I'd certainly like to know about it, so that I don't continue to operate under misconceptions. Saying blatantly incorrect stuff to someone who knows better tends to make you sound like a complete idiot, and I frankly don't prefer to be perceived that way.
Since I'm sure you're much the same, at least in the way of not wanting to look like an idiot, I invite you to SHOW me where I've gone wrong.

In the spirit of clearing misconceptions, I'll start: "Professor" is a title awarded by an academic institution of higher learning based primarily on tenure and recognition of ability in education. It does not require a doctorate, though I'll certainly grant that most of those given the title are likely to have at least one such degree.
Mine is an honorary professorship from the Banzai Institute for Biomedical Engineering and Strategic Information, Holland NJ. I make no claim to mastery of any subject (and indeed profess a great ignorance of many others), but I do seek to emulate the esteemed Dr. Banzai in learning as much as I can, about as much as I can. It seems a worthy pursuit to me.
Also of interest: knighthood by definition requires a royal or religious backing, and as such modern chivalric orders under the same idea of use (that is, on active military persons) are sadly out of the question in America's military forces. That has nothing to do with anything, but it's neat.

 

[Kohai999]

Hey, here's an idea, instead of being a dickhat, why don't you explain what I got wrong and then provide the alternative (and hopefully correct) information?
That way, everybody gets to learn something! You get all the satisfaction of telling someone you know more than they do, and you educate them and other users in the correct information. Then, people congratulate or even thank you for responding, instead of just saying "wow, what an asshole"

Wait a minute.

You are using the internet to communicate misinformation, when it is just as easy to find the CORRECT information using that same internet....

http://new.uniquejapan.com/7-points-to-consider-when-choosing-your-japanese-sword/

http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Japanese_Swords

I easily got to these sites by typing in "Japanese sword making criteria" into the search bar.

You made yourself a "dickhat" by imperiously spouting off your incorrectitudes....and the onus isn't on SC to correct your mistakes, but he can(and certainly did) call you out on it.

Is it "nice"...no!!

....but here is the rub.....Westerners have been spouting off inaccuracies about Japanese blades since WWII if not before, and it tends to stick in the minds of the neophytes....so here is a down and dirty solution.....SHUT UP until you know the basics....ask a lot of targeted questions....be timid in offering opinions or making statements until asked, and make damned sure that you know what you are talking about.

Welcome to BFC, hopefully you can correct your rocky arrival, and may it be smooth sailing for you moving forward.

Dr. Buckaroo Banzai.....seriously?? The '80's called...they want their Smallberries back.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[NihontoEd]

Sir,
LOL. That's Mr. Dickhat. No better way for an educated man to emphasize his point than name calling.

Perhaps a better solution, would be to educate yourself prior to posting BS information regarding a field you obviously have not studied.
I am not concern with your fragile sensibilities. My response to your post is to prevent someone newly interested in Japanese swords from reading your words of wisdom (heavy sarcasm), and walk away completely misinformed.

I am under no obligation to educate you, the correct answers to most of your statements can be easily found with a little research.

Therefore, if I'm wrong, I'd certainly like to know about it, so that I don't continue to operate under misconceptions. Saying blatantly incorrect stuff to someone who knows better tends to make you sound like a complete idiot, and I frankly don't prefer to be perceived that way.

No offense, but frankly that is exactly why I posted my reply, your statements were just so ridicules.
My only concern is for the benefit of inexperienced newcomers.
I have no control over perceptions which may already be formed.

Since I'm sure you're much the same, at least in the way of not wanting to look like an idiot, I invite you to SHOW me where I've gone wrong.

Again, I am under no obligation to "show" you anything. Nor, do I have any concerns regarding what you or anyone thinks of me. But most here, I think would tell you that they respect my input and contributions to this section. You have been a member here for how long ? Oh, less than a month, with a total of 11 posts.
Again, my only concern was for the benefit of inexperienced newcomers.

In retrospect you obviously fall into that category. Therefore, for your edification, I will address some of your questions.

They make one to two swords, which are almost all ONLY going to be displayed in japan. It's not that they frown on americans buying them, it's that NO ONE gets to buy them in a real sense.

Common sense would dictate that an artisan can not sustain himself or family if unable to sell his works.
In accordance with the Ju-tō-hō 銃 刀法 (Japanese Firearms and Sword Law) established in 1952. A swordsmith is allowed to register and sell, two long swords and three short swords per month.

In short, unless you become an immensely wealthy, connected, and respected individual in Japan, you aren't getting one made for you.

This incorrect. Swords are not cheap, but they can be had by anyone with the money to pay for one.
Here is a small excerpt of FAQ's to a friends business in Japan who specializes in acting as liaison for commissioning newly made Japanese swords.

Q. How do I go about ordering a sword?

A. You can either choose a swordsmith from our database, or ask us to suggest a smith that meets your needs or budget. After a brief discussion to confirm that your order meets your specifications, using our specialist translation services (sword terminology is complicated and most swordsmiths do not speak English), we will then place your order for you.

Q. How much is a sword?

A.The price of a blade greatly, depending on various factors such as the length and type of blade, choice of horimono* (if any), type of mountings, type of polish, and the most important factor, which smith that you choose. *artistic carving

In a broad terms, Katana by standard swordsmiths for martial arts use (iaido/tameshigiri, etc) start from approximately 1,000,000 JPY fully mounted (around $10,000 depending on the exchange rate at the time). Katana in plain wooden sleeping scabbards with habaki by smiths rated as master craftsmen (mukansa), start at approximately 3,000,000 JPY (around $30,000 depending on the exchange rate at the time). Swords by prize winners at the annual sword making competitions cost somewhere in between. Second hand swords for martial arts use can be found for around $5000, but come with expected wear and tear. These prices are only a guide, as prices are subject to order and smith.

Q. Why are they so expensive?

A. Swordsmiths in Japan are regulated by the government. Smiths have to be licensed and are restricted to making two long swords or three shorts swords per month. Every aspect of sword making by all the craftsmen involved is by hand. In addition, swordsmiths have overheads. They have to pay for their forge, charcoal, raw materials, as well as cover their labor.

Unfortunately, historical katanas are themselves scarce

I will say that as you were not specific in your idea of what constitutes historical, our thoughts could be vastly different. Here are links to a few of what I would call historical.
http://www.nihonto.com/AraIchi.html
http://www.nihonto.com/niji%20kunitoshi.html
http://yakiba.com/Kat_Yoshikane.htm
http://yakiba.com/katana_munetsugu.htm

During WW2, the Japanese military issued katanas to its officers, and rather than make them (being under trade embargoes and at war) the government had families give up their swords for the military's use. Most of these swords didn't fit the specifications for the modern officer's sword, so they were often cut down, and the ones that weren't in good enough shape to be used were melted down and made into new swords.

The Japanese did produce swords to issue to it's military. Many were mass produced and not made in the traditional manner, yet there were facilities which did make traditional swords for the military. The Minatogawa shrine made traditional swords for the Navy and the Yasukuni shrine made traditional swords for the Army.

There were familial blades mounted military or gunto mounts, but it was mostly due to officers of good families wishing to carry their family heirloom into battle. They were not forced to do this. There may have ben some alterations done for mounting such as drilling a new peg hole(mekugi ana). The vast majority seen which have been cut down, were cut down many years prior to WWII when the fighting style changed from horseback to foot. Laws were enacted regulating the length of swords and many old Tachi were cut down into Katana.

See what a nice guy I am.

Regards,
Mr. Dickhat

 

[Professor_Jack]

See what a nice guy I am.

Regards,
Mr. Dickhat

I do! Thanks!
I'm very glad to learn full-tradition-make swords aren't nearly as difficult to acquire as I'd been led to believe.
Looking back at other stuff, the information I put down is correctly repeated from the source, except further investigation has led me to believe that the source of said information had misunderstood something said in a documentary on the subject.
As far as WW2 swords go, rereading it, I think that IS what I'd learned, but I recalled it incorrectly. So now I know!
Yay! Thanks again.

Wait a minute.

You are using the internet to communicate misinformation, when it is just as easy to find the CORRECT information using that same internet....
...You made yourself a "dickhat" by imperiously spouting off your incorrectitudes....and the onus isn't on SC to correct your mistakes, but he can(and certainly did) call you out on it....
...Dr. Buckaroo Banzai.....seriously?? The '80's called...they want their Smallberries back.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Oh, so many things. *shakes head with much sighing*
If the person who says something incorrect has come to that conclusion BASED on research, they have no impetus to find the correct information, because they think they HAVE correct information. The only way to change that is to let them know they ARE incorrect, which is best accomplished with some bit of data that contradicts what they have learned. It is the incorrect party's duty to then examine that and other related data to better educate themselves.

I did not make myself a dickhat with my original post, I revealed myself as ignorant or misinformed. When the good captain whiskey (SC, your meaningless title is open for debate, email me if you wanna change it) made his initial response to my post, he did so in a rather rude manner. It is the lack of social propriety that grants one the epithet of "dick" and its related variants. I called him a dickhat, but others might simply say his brusque retort was a "dick move". However, I'd like to think that's been dealt with, for though the good captain and I are certainly gentlemen of "disagreeable" temperaments, his subsequent response, while still filled with a sarcastic tone, did in fact take the time to address the issues I raised.
While i'm at it, i'd like to address the two responses, yours and that of SouthernComfort. While both of you chose to say "here's a new user who says something I take issue with, let me show off how I am superior" he had an altogether better response than you. He merely accused me of being ignorant. You, on the other hand, have decided to say, "How dare you be annoyed at the behavior of a longer-time member! YOU NEED TO BE QUIET UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONGER". Lemme just say, that's exceedingly arrogant. I pass the hat of phalluses to you, sir.

As for the last thing... Bite me. Its a big damn joke, and I'm sorry you dont think Buckaroo Banzai is funny, but I and a good number of people still do.
I don't like Thundercats or Gumball, but I don't get pissy when somebody makes a reference to either of them

Even if gumball does get weirdly sexual at times. Seriously, do 5-9 yr olds REALLY need an 30minute discussion on the finer points of infidelity and polyamory?

 

[Kohai999]

While both of you chose to say "here's a new user who says something I take issue with, let me show off how I am superior" he had an altogether better response than you. He merely accused me of being ignorant. You, on the other hand, have decided to say, "How dare you be annoyed at the behavior of a longer-time member! YOU NEED TO BE QUIET UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONGER". Lemme just say, that's exceedingly arrogant. I pass the hat of phalluses to you, sir.

As for the last thing... Bite me. Its a big damn joke, and I'm sorry you dont think Buckaroo Banzai is funny, but I and a good number of people still do.
I don't like Thundercats or Gumball, but I don't get pissy when somebody makes a reference to either of them

Even if gumball does get weirdly sexual at times. Seriously, do 5-9 yr olds REALLY need an 30minute discussion on the finer points of infidelity and polyamory?

If you got annoyed at SC, you miss the point.

If you want to be ignorant, you might want to keep it to yourself.....Enjoy your short time at BFC.....or learn, and develop into a respected member like SC.

What is Gumball and Thundercats?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[NihontoEd]

ROFLMAO. Still name calling I see (Dr Banzai would not approve). My spidey sense tells me you will do well on this forum. Perhaps you should try your luck in the "Whine and cheese" section, where they will rip you a new one.

Once again, I am hesitant to reply, yet your propensity for justification beckons. This shall be my final entry on the matter.

Looking back at other stuff, the information I put down is correct, except further investigation has led me to believe that the source of said information had misunderstood something said in a documentary on the subject.

I have several issues with this statement:
First, if the source of your information misunderstood something, then the information you posted was NOT correct.
Second, regardless of the reason, the information was NOT correct. Yet it was posted on a public forum as absolute.
if you have based your original posts on information gained second hand from a documentary, then all I can say is why would you have posted in the first place ???

This forum is not the place to watch a documentary or talk to someone who did, then join to enthrall us with your brilliance, or worse yet try to baffle us with BS or BBS (that's Banzai BS). As you are probably aware by this point, it won't do.

I did not make myself a dickhat with my original post, I revealed myself as ignorant or misinformed.

Ahhh, the most correct statement you have made since your unsolicited and unqualified entry into this thread.

When the good captain whiskey (SC) made his initial response to my post, he did so in a rather rude manner.

No question, my reply was "matter of fact", as I felt your statements deserved. My replies were very clear and to the point.
However, I was not rude. Examples of rude would be:
"Wrong !, this is the stupidest thing I ever heard !!"
"Wrong, are you a fu*king idiot or what ??"

i'd like to address the two responses, yours and that of SouthernComfort. While both of you chose to say "here's a new user who says something I take issue with, let me show off how I am superior" He merely accused me of being ignorant. You, on the other hand, have decided to say, "How dare you be annoyed at the behavior of a longer-time member! YOU NEED TO BE QUIET UNTIL YOU'VE BEEN HERE LONGER". Lemme just say, that's exceedingly arrogant.

You seem to have an extravagant desire to justify your shortcomings which results in you missing the point completely.

I was not looking to show off my superiority, in fact I informed you from the very beginning I was under no obligation to educate you or show you anything.
As stated previously, it was for benefit of others that I posted, not for you.


In summary, you posted numerous incorrect statements, which could have negative results for newcomers in a field I have a great passion for. The field of Japanese swords is much deeper than the majority of casually interested enthusiast's could ever comprehend. I have studied Nihonto (Japanese swords) for nearly thirty years, and while I may know a tad more than the average bear, I am no where near an expert.

You were called on these statements and decided to try and justify them and resorted to name calling. In the future, perhaps a more amiable approach might be advised.

 

[aguila327]

What's a dickhat?

 

[aguila327]

Found them.

 

[JAMES DOEDING]

Commissioned a newly made nihonto back in 07 ran around 7000.00. Aoi art is a good option,usagiya and nishijin. Yamamoto san at nishijin is a nice guy to work with.