UK Ban on Ninja Swords

Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
96
The UK Government are going to ban Ninja swords.

They are also going to bring in sanctions for the executives of tech platforms that allow illegal sales via their platforms etc. Government consultations are here:


 
It’s good for me to read this stuff every once in a while and remember how lucky I am to live in the USA. Seems like every years there’s a new blade law coming up in the UK to solve a problem that doesn’t exist.
 
First zombies and now ninjas. Way to disprepare the populace for the most likely world-ending events! :rolleyes:

And aren't "samurai" swords and other swords still legal there? How does that make any sense?

Will someone please think of the tuna knives?
 
First zombies and now ninjas. Way to disprepare the populace for the most likely world-ending events! :rolleyes:

And aren't "samurai" swords and other swords still legal there? How does that make any sense?

Will someone please think of the tuna knives?
Don't forget that your pocket knife can't have a lock on it.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Once they ban all knives, they can look forward to an increase in clubbings.
 
UK is just going to outlaw everything under the sun.

So how are they defining what a “ninja sword” is. Is it Japanese katanas? Are there roving ninja gangs wreaking havoc now in addition to all the zombie machete gangs?

When people ask what are the UK’s knife laws, the answer at this point should just be this: If you like knives, don’t live in the UK.
 
Didn't the ninjas dress to fit in and infiltrate and used the same swords as anyone else?
IIRC the "ninjato" was a modern invention developed during the 80s ninja craze for movies.
 
"Ninja sword" and "Zombie knife" are terms used by the media to describe cutlery that is unconventional in appearance. The examples that I have seen featured low-grade steel that simply would not hold an edge, as well as loose handles and cheaply made fittings that certainly wouldn't hold up to any kind of practical use, never mind combat. Probably make good wall-hanger decorations at a dojo, but that's about all they are good for. I understand that Cold Steel sold a variety of high quality swords, but the Special Projects division was discontinued almost immediately after Lynn Thompson sold the company. Existing CS swords are probably fetching ridiculously high prices now, assuming you can even find an owner willing to part with one. From what I understand, the vast majority of edged weapon-related crime in UK is committed with common kitchen knives. Good luck outlawing those!
 
Here in Houston Texs, I have been to two japanese blade shows. Really nice in a hotel ballroom. There were Japanese knives and swords of msny types from ancient historical Samuri swords, priceless to merely expensive, down to less prestigeous WW-II, sabers.

No one there ever referred to any of the blades I saw as "Ninga Swords".

What exactly are they forbidding?
 
Here in Houston Texs, I have been to two japanese blade shows. Really nice in a hotel ballroom. There were Japanese knives and swords of msny types from ancient historical Samuri swords, priceless to merely expensive, down to less prestigeous WW-II, sabers.

No one there ever referred to any of the blades I saw as "Ninga Swords".

What exactly are they forbidding?
Anything black, sharp, and considered scary by a council of stodgy 40+ year old women.
 
No one there ever referred to any of the blades I saw as "Ninga Swords".

What exactly are they forbidding?
I'm not sure why you're confused. I find it very easy to recognize a Ninja Sword.

A43-BK5002.jpg
 
We all "know" what each of us thinks of as a Ninja sword. None of thst matters until we read the language of the ordinance or statute. Only what is written in the law matters.

So, what does that law say in defining what a forbidden "Ninja Sword" is?
 
So, what does that law say in defining what a forbidden "Ninja Sword" is?
It’s in English- you can read it in the first posted link. I of course recognize your request is for someone to do this for you, but I can’t feed it to you, I can only make it easier to find. I’m including the intent of the definition (section 3) along with the proposed definition in section 4. I will say this- they were very thoughtful about the definition.

3.​

3.1. We want to ensure that our legal description of ninja swords serves two purposes. First that it captures ninja swords which are of concern to members of the public. Second, that it does not bring within scope of the ban swords and other bladed tools that are typically used for legitimate purposes.

3.2. There is not a precise historical description of what a ninja sword is. Ninja swords (Ninjato, Ninjaken, Shinobigatana) are used by modern Ninjutsu practitioners but there is an absence of antique examples, and the most popular design seems to have first surfaced in the 1950s. Due to the lack of a precise description, and the fact that different types of swords are being marketed in the UK as ninja swords, this creates the possibility that in an attempt to ban them, as an unintended consequence, a number of other bladed tools and other types of swords, including those that are used for legitimate purposes will also be banned.

3.3. There is a range of reasons why some swords should remain legal to own and use. We are aware that many members of the public own antique swords and swords of historical interest which are not antique. People also own modern swords as collectable items and there are also those who own swords for activities such as martial arts, fencing and re-enactment. Many British military swords have plain straight blades and are in the possession of service personnel or in the possession of family members of former service personnel when they are passed on. Furthermore, there are many machetes and long knives that are used as farming tools.

4.​

4.1. We are aiming to provide as precise as possible legal description to the ninja swords that we intend to prohibit, and that our research shows, are marketed in the UK.

4.2. As outlined in paragraph 3.3, there are many legitimate uses of swords, which we do not intend to prohibit or restrict. As such, we have developed a description that looks at length of the blade, type of sharp pointed end and type of cutting blade.

4.3. Our proposed legal description of a ninja sword to be included in the prohibited list of weapons under Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act is as follows:

A fixed bladed article with a blade between 14-24 inches (the length of the blade being the straight-line distance from the top of the handle to the tip of the blade) with:

(i) A single straight cutting edge; and;

(ii) A tanto style point - by tanto style point, we mean a point which is created by the main cutting-edge changing direction in a short (relative to the overall length of the blade) straight line, with an angle (between the primary long cutting edge and secondary short cutting edge at the tip) greater than 90 degrees and continuing up to form a point of less than 90 degree, where the secondary short cutting edge meets the spine. The secondary short cutting edge should not deviate in length more than 5% more or less than the width of the blade immediately after the hilt; or

(iii) A reversed tanto style point – by reverse tanto style point, we mean a point which is created by the cutting-edge changing direction in a short (relative to the overall length of the blade) straight line, with an angle (between the primary long cutting edge and secondary short cutting edge at the tip) less than 90 degrees and continuing up to form a point of greater than 90 degree, where the secondary short cutting edge meets the spine. The secondary short cutting edge should not deviate in length more than 5% more or less than the width of the blade immediately after the hilt.

4.4. A single cutting edge is a typical feature of a ninja sword. If the description included double-edged swords, it would bring into scope other types of swords that, as discussed in paragraph 3.3, we do not intend to prohibit.

4.5. A tanto point is the most common design found in ninja swords that are available in the UK market. To ensure that we capture future designs of ninja swords, we will also be bringing into scope of the ban ninja swords with a reverse tanto point. Our description may capture other single edged swords and tanto or reversed tanto knives and machetes, as an unintended consequence, such as specialised tuna knives and we are seeking views on whether there are more bladed articles that are likely to be banned as an unintended consequence. We are also seeking views on whether we should be providing defences for some of these bladed articles, such as tuna knives, and bladed articles with a tanto or reversed tanto point of other lengths will not be banned.

4.6. We are proposing a blade length of 14 – 24 inches in order to exclude from the ban common kitchen knives and traditional long swords, as well as most traditional daggers such as the Scottish Dirk. This description will also keep lawful swords which are longer such as the larger fish knives, for example specialised tuna knives, and longer straight bladed swords like traditional military swords.

4.7. We welcome views on whether the proposed legal description is sufficiently precise so it bans the ninja swords that are of concern to the public, whilst minimising the number of bladed articles that may be brought within scope of the description as an unintended consequence.

4.8. For illustrative purposes, we have provided a list below, with images, of swords that will and will not be prohibited under our proposed legal description:

Banned under new zombie-style knife and machete legislation​

knife1.png

Serrated ninja sword (17.5” blade). This example will be banned by the zombie-style knife and machete legislation.

knife2.jpg

Blue ninja sword (18” blade). This example has been banned by the zombie-style knife and machete legislation.

(There are many other variations on the market in slightly different styles / colours etc. that will also fall under the zombie-style knife and machete ban)

Will be banned by proposed new ninja sword definition​

knife3.jpg

This is the most common ninja sword design. Typically, they have a short, straight, plain, single edged blade of varying length (most commonly in the 17”– 24” range). Designs such as this will be banned by our new definition.

knife4.jpg

“Rainbow” ninja sword design (18.75” blade). This is similar to the sword that was used in the murder of Ronan Kanda and will be banned by our new definition.

Other items that will be banned by new ninja sword definition​

We are aware that some specialised knives, such as the tuna knife below will be banned, as an unintended consequence, but shorter and longer tuna knives will remain available.

knife5.jpg

Maguro Bocho (Tuna Knife) (21” blade) – whilst examples between 14” and 24” will be prohibited shorter or larger examples will still be permitted.

Kitchen knives that will not be banned by the new definition​

There are a number of kitchen knives with long blades which we do not intend to ban. This is why our definition of a ninja sword starts at 14” blade length and why we have set out the length range at 14-24 inches.

knife6.jpg

Kitchen knife (8” blade).

knife7.jpg

Maguro Bocho (Tuna Knife) (27.5” blade)

Straight swords that will not be banned by the new definition​

There are a very large number of different styles of swords with straight or curved blades.

Modern functional copies of traditional swords are popular with collectors, martial artists (Historical European Martial Arts - HEMA) re-enactors, for ceremonial use (weddings etc) and sometimes for religious reasons.

There are also straight swords which are used for sports such as fencing.

knife8.jpg

Seax (23” blade).

This is an example of a typical Seax sword. The point is similar to the tanto point, however, it would not meet the criteria we are proposing for ninja swords because the straight line at the tip is not roughly the width of the blade.

knife9.jpg

Anglo Saxon sword (31” blade).

knife10.jpg

Viking sword (24” blade).
 
UK is just going to outlaw everything under the sun.

So how are they defining what a “ninja sword” is. Is it Japanese katanas? Are there roving ninja gangs wreaking havoc now in addition to all the zombie machete gangs?

When people ask what are the UK’s knife laws, the answer at this point should just be this: If you like knives, don’t live in the UK.
It is easy to ban non-existent fantasy items, few will speak out against it, and useful to distract from the real issue of rising crime and the importation of underclasses that are willing to use violence to pursue alien ajendas.

N2s
 
It’s in English- you can read it in the first posted link. I of course recognize your request is for someone to do this for you, but I can’t feed it to you, I can only make it easier to find. I’m including the intent of the definition (section 3) along with the proposed definition in section 4. I will say this- they were very thoughtful about the definition.

You've got me there. My vision is pretty bad, between 20p/150 and 20p/200 in one eye, the opther one is blind. While I can still read, its difficult and requires more than casual effort. For these reasons, I avoid wading through more than a paragraph or two of text.

So, now I have read the pertinent parts of the linked document. My takeaways are that there is no reference to swords of historical use by the Samauri class of warriors in Japan on the one hand, only referencing a hypothetical "Ninja Sword", not a Samauri's Katana. Another takeaway is that one of the defining features of the so-called Ninja Sword is the presence of a "Tanto Point", which is meticulously defined.

I clicked around some and found pictures of Katanas. Wikipedia has a pretty good article on the subject. I am sure that there are other authorative articles as well. Most of the depictions of actusal Japanese Samauri swords do not have the so-called Tanto Point. Most have a smoothly curved transition from the long cutting edge to the point.


I don't know how the legal system works in the UK. I have a strong feeling that in a US court, this definition could be circumvented or shown to not apply to most Samauri style swords that follow a traditional or historically accurate blade form used by Japanese Samauri warriors.

I am glad that I live in Texas.
 
Will someone please think of the tuna knives?
It's funny- they did think of that. I don't know if you read their definition and possible impacts to other knives, such as tuna knives.
I didn't read that until this morning.
 
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