Unmarked woodslasher

[Steve Tall]

Holy smokes Steve! Informative pictures. Not only does the Woodslasher label on that unstamped head (model 35M2K) indicate that there are eye ridges but it also says 'wear safety goggles'. Same goes with the double bit Woodslasher (model 25M2K) without eye ridges. If I recall 'wear safety goggles' became compulsory print on n. American striking tools in the mid to late 1970s. Perhaps TT was ahead of it's time and was already labelling them with such a warning before 1960, or else the double bit was manufactured sometime after 1982.

As detailed in an earlier post (below), OSHA and ANSI worked together in 1976 on some workplace safety standards. ANSI later issued updated standards for "Heavy Striking Tools -- Safety Requirements". An article from 1977 says that "Each hammer meeting the ANSI safety standard is required to carry a warning statement alerting the user to the danger of eye injury and urging the use of safety goggles." So, I would conclude that tools with a safety goggles warning were probably made around 1977 or later.

I did some digging to see if I could find any indication of the year when manufacturers started putting "Wear Safety Goggles" on axes, mauls, hammers, etc. Knowing this could help with figuring out just how "vintage" is that vintage tool.

Some recollections from 300Six narrow it down to somewhere approximately between 1972 and 1985:



The earliest references I found were some newspaper articles from the late 1970s, like this article from 1977 that said:

"Each hammer meeting the ANSI safety standard is required to carry a warning statement alerting the user to the danger of eye injury and urging the use of safety goggles."

Another reference identifies the ANSI standard for "Heavy Striking Tools -- Safety Requirements" as ANSI/HTI B 173.3

This history of ANSI gives a possible origin for these warning statements on tools:
"In 1976, ANSI and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration established a joint coordinating committee for private-public sector voluntary standards activities that affect safety and health in the workplace."


My conclusion is that a "Wear Safety Goggles" stamp or label means that the tool was not made before the late 1970s.

 

[rjdankert]

I guess in order to know for sure the maker of a unmarked head one would need to know the back story of the head, or, the head has a feature that is linked exclusively to a brand. Is the mysterious letter number stamp exclusive to true temper? I guess that’s the million $ question.

Even though it seems reasonable that your axe may be a True Temper product, it cannot be said from anything posted so far in this thread that it is a True Temper product.


Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

...Not only does the Woodslasher label on that unstamped head (model 35M2K) indicate that there are eye ridges but it also says 'wear safety goggles'. Same goes with the double bit Woodslasher (model 25M2K) without eye ridges. If I recall 'wear safety goggles' became compulsory print on n. American striking tools in the mid to late 1970s...

Those model numbers are also currently being used by BARCO for their "Kelly Woodslasher" axes (without eye ridges). 35M2K is the Michigan pattern double bit, and 35W2K is the Western pattern double bit.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s (before BARCO acquired the Kelly trademarks in 1987 according to YesteryearsTools), these models were being advertised with the "forged steel ridges" in the eye. The earliest ad I found mentioning the eye ridges was in 1960, mentioning six "forged-steel ridges", so it appears that the six-ridged True Tempers were the older ones.

Hardware Age - Volume 186, Issues 3-6 - Page 79
1960 - Snippet view
HEAD LOCK Six biting forged-steel ridges inside the eye of this head grip the hickory like a bear trap. Lock head and handle together ... It's the newest way to hold axe heads tight (patent applied for). Featured in True Temper's Kelly Perfect, Flint Edge and Kelly Wood-slasher lines. All patterns and weights! Order now from ...

 

[quinton]

That's nice to know that the heads with 6 ridges are older. Thanks, Steve!

 

[Steve Tall]

That's nice to know that the heads with 6 ridges are older. Thanks, Steve!

I think that's true for the True Temper axes with ridges. The other brands with ridges are a bit of a mystery. Such as, the Vaughan Value Brand with 6 ridges in the eye. And the uncommon Plumb or Collins axe with ridges. These might have been done in the 1970s and/or 1980s.

My guess is that Mann started to do the eye ridges at some point, which is why some Collins have ridges (Mann owned Collins since 1966). Mann also could have also made the ridged heads with the Plumb and Vaughan brand. Barco might have been involved, too, since they acquired True Temper's Kelly Axe division in 1987 (as mentioned below). It's all not so far-fetched when the following information from YesteryearsTools is considered:

"In 1987 True Temper sold the Kelly division along with the many brand names to Barco Industries of Reading, Pennsylvania."

"Some other brands previously used by other companies have reportedly been made by Barco but that has not been corroborated nor is the extent of the brand use been determined."

"In their later years M. E. T. Co. [Mann Edge Tool] made a variety of forged tools. They provided speciality brands of axes and forgings for private labels such as Sears and made tools for other manufacturers such as the the F. R. Plumb Co."

"The time frame and diversity has yet to be defined but reliable information reveals that sometime in the 1970s and/or 1980s some Plumb axes were being manufactured by the Mann Edge Tool Co. of Lewistown, PA."

 

[garry3]

Even though it seems reasonable that your axe may be a True Temper product, it cannot be said from anything posted so far in this thread that it is a True Temper product.


Bob

I thought the small letter number codes were exclusive to True Temper axes?

 

[rjdankert]

I thought the small letter number codes were exclusive to True Temper axes?

I don't know where to find that.


Bob

 

[garry3]

I don't know where to find that.


Bob

I don’t know were either Bob.
It’s just that I have never seen those marks on any other brand that I could positively identify other than True Temper.
As always I reserve the right to be wrong.

 

[Steve Tall]

... It’s just that I have never seen those marks on any other brand that I could positively identify other than True Temper...

Me neither. And I would say there is a certain degree of certainty that it is a True Temper, based on available evidence. I can't put a number on the probability, other than say I'd bet significant money that the axe originally posted in this thread is a True Temper Woodslasher. I'd also bet that a randomly found axe that's stamped "True Temper" (like other True Tempers we've seen) was actually a True Temper brand axe, even though there is not 100% certainty (it could be a forgery, after all, some might argue).

Someone could argue that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" (as in, even though nobody has shown an example of a fake "True Temper" stamp, it doesn't mean they don't exist), but I think that argument is pretty weak in cases concerning axe manufacturing details like this, where oral history is dying out along with the factory workers, and such details are rather trivial, not making a huge difference either way.

 

[300Six]

I think that's true for the True Temper axes with ridges. The other brands with ridges are a bit of a mystery. Such as, the Vaughan Value Brand with 6 ridges in the eye. And the uncommon Plumb or Collins axe with ridges. These might have been done in the 1970s and/or 1980s.

My guess is that Mann started to do the eye ridges at some point, which is why some Collins have ridges (Mann owned Collins since 1966). Mann also could have also made the ridged heads with the Plumb and Vaughan brand. Barco might have been involved, too, since they acquired True Temper's Kelly Axe division in 1987 (as mentioned below). It's all not so far-fetched when the following information from YesteryearsTools is considered:

"In 1987 True Temper sold the Kelly division along with the many brand names to Barco Industries of Reading, Pennsylvania."

"Some other brands previously used by other companies have reportedly been made by Barco but that has not been corroborated nor is the extent of the brand use been determined."

"In their later years M. E. T. Co. [Mann Edge Tool] made a variety of forged tools. They provided speciality brands of axes and forgings for private labels such as Sears and made tools for other manufacturers such as the the F. R. Plumb Co."

"The time frame and diversity has yet to be defined but reliable information reveals that sometime in the 1970s and/or 1980s some Plumb axes were being manufactured by the Mann Edge Tool Co. of Lewistown, PA."

If in fact the patent for ridged eyes was granted to Kelly/True Temper in 1963 then 20 years later it would have become a 'free-for-all' for others when the patent lapsed. Industry upset with demise of axe making and rampant consolidation of those few businesses that were left during the 60s, 70s and 80s probably didn't help.

 

[rjdankert]

Twice in this thread I have tried to convey that I think True Temper was the most likely manufacturer of the OP's axe head:

. . .True Temper is a good guess. . .

. . . it seems reasonable that your axe may be a True Temper product. . .

But with the caveat that it is not a certainty because of lack of documentation. I believe that is a logical conclusion and likely represents the consensus here. At least I haven't seen a direct statement against it.

. . .I'd bet significant money that the axe originally posted in this thread is a True Temper Woodslasher. . .

I'll take the bet.

You name the amount and odds. I will further allow you two full days to present the documentation (due 10:00 a. m. EDT Monday October 23, 2017). Send me a private message and we can work out any further details. No sense in mucking up this thread any more.


Bob

For general information, there is a thread on this forum titled "Axes with eye ridges...."
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/axes-with-eye-ridges.1332341/

 

[Steve Tall]

Most things in this world are "not a certainty", but we find ways to work with what we've got. The requirement for criminal court conviction is "beyond reasonable doubt", not certainty. The requirement for a civil court, and a good bet (in my view), is "more likely to be true than not true", not certainty.

Regarding whether the OP's axe was made by True Temper, some people could consider the evidence and conclude "beyond reasonable doubt". Some people would conclude "more likely a True Temper than not". And some people (or one person) would say:

"...Your axe may be a True Temper product...True Temper is a good guess and may be satisfying to you."

It seems like this identifies True Temper as a suspect, perhaps one of several likely suspects. I didn't see Bob actually indicating that True Temper was "the most likely manufacturer" until this morning. And his understanding of how a bet works seems different than mine.

Twice in this thread I have tried to convey that I think True Temper was the most likely manufacturer of the OP's axe head:

​

But with the caveat that it is not a certainty because of lack of documentation. I believe that is a logical conclusion and likely represents the consensus here. At least I haven't seen a direct statement against it.



I'll take the bet.

You name the amount and odds. I will further allow you two full days to present the documentation (due 10:00 a. m. EDT Monday October 23, 2017). Send me a private message and we can work out any further details. No sense in mucking up this thread any more.


Bob

For general information, there is a thread on this forum titled "Axes with eye ridges...."

 

[garry3]

If in fact the patent for ridged eyes was granted to Kelly/True Temper in 1963 then 20 years later it would have become a 'free-for-all' for others when the patent lapsed. Industry upset with demise of axe making and rampant consolidation of those few businesses that were left during the 60s, 70s and 80s probably didn't help.

I don’t believe that these other manufacturers waited twenty years to make axes with eye ridges. I can’t prove this but it just goes against what I have seen in workmanship and also a Collins replacement handle with the ridges precut into it, that wasn’t a product of the eighties.

If I am right about this does it mean a patent was never issued to True Temper for their eye ridges?

 

[Square_peg]

It's always been next to impossible to possitively indentify an unmarked axe. It's an exercise in futility. So we give our best guesses and move along.

I would like to find someday a clearly branded axe that isn't TT and displays at least the letter/number code and also maybe the eye ridges. And not on something like a Stiletto that was known to be made TT.

 

[Steve Tall]

I don’t believe that these other manufacturers waited twenty years to make axes with eye ridges. I can’t prove this but it just goes against what I have seen in workmanship and also a Collins replacement handle with the ridges precut into it, that wasn’t a product of the eighties.

If I am right about this does it mean a patent was never issued to True Temper for their eye ridges?

True Temper's patent for the eye ridges was Patent Number 3090653, filed 7/2/59 and granted 5/21/63. (Details at bottom.) The duration of this patent would be until May 1980, according to information below.

For patents filed prior to June 8, 1995, the term of patent is either 20 years from the earliest filing date as above (excluding provisional applications) or 17 years from the issue date, whichever is longer.
Term of patent - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent


True Temper's patent information:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3090653

 

[300Six]

I don’t believe that these other manufacturers waited twenty years to make axes with eye ridges. I can’t prove this but it just goes against what I have seen in workmanship and also a Collins replacement handle with the ridges precut into it, that wasn’t a product of the eighties.

If I am right about this does it mean a patent was never issued to True Temper for their eye ridges?

Funny huh that I lived through the entire history of manufacture of these but never bought into any of those gimmicks (axes with eye ridges). And as a consumer never did know what was going on in that industry or behind the scenes. It was the Swedes that inadvertently caught my eye 1/2 century ago because their (then considered 'offshore' and upstart) goods were accurate renditions of domestic patterns and were cheaper and proved be equally well made.

 

[garry3]

True Temper's patent for the eye ridges was Patent Number 3090653, filed 7/2/59 and granted 5/21/63. (Details at bottom.) The duration of this patent would be until May 1980, according to information below.

For patents filed prior to June 8, 1995, the term of patent is either 20 years from the earliest filing date as above (excluding provisional applications) or 17 years from the issue date, whichever is longer.
Term of patent - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_of_patent


True Temper's patent information:
https://www.google.com/patents/US3090653

Thank you Steve. Seems to be more to this than just eye ridges. I will look it over better when I get on a computer that I can see better.

 

[rjdankert]

Most things in this world are "not a certainty". . .

I don't know why you are attacking me with all of the minutiae etc. when we both basically agree.

The offer to take the bet still stands, but I will not take your bait and get into a tit for tat about this.


Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

I don't know why you are attacking me with all of the minutiae etc. when we both basically agree.

The offer to take the bet still stands, but I will not take your bait and get into a tit for tat about this.


Bob

Accusations of "attacking you" and "bait"?
On the positive side, it's now clear to me that you basically agree.

 

[quinton]

I've seen the 4 ribs on a bunch of stamped Kelly axes over the years, 2 wide spaced, and 2 narrow spaced on opposing sides of the eye. I'm betting that rib pattern is a Kelly thing.

I have a 3 1/2 lb. Michigan pattern, Woodslasher with a label that I haven't looked at in years. I'll try to check see if it will provide a clue into this mystery.

Here's my Woodslasher, 4 ridges in the eye and no stamp.

Cost was $11.50.