Using a Sword For Home Defense.

point taken ken. however, i didnt say i counted on an incompetant attacker or that i didnt take a gun attacker seriously or that i didnt train hard. just that most people who break into homes are most likely not very well trained. and that a sword is not completly useless against a gun. see, the thing i dont understand about the basic gun vs sword for home defence thing is this...

does having a gun yourself, prevent you from being shot?

obviously not. so, its a matter of disabling or killing him before he does it to you. anyone who thinks a sword is not capable of dismembering, disabling or killing someone hasnt really handled a sword. a gun is a weapon designed to cause physical harm, so is a sword. they are both very capable of doing this. neither is capable of protecting you from harm. just to try and inflict harm first.

so, where we are, is who can do the most damage first and reliably. sure, in large spaces and in brightly lit conditions. the gun has the advantage. why... because it can harm/kill you before you can close with a sword. distance. period. if it gets close, a sword will harm you and kill you just the same. maybe better. ill take a bullet in the arm over having it hacked off. most homes have small cluttered rooms. not alot of space to see, sight, fire, and put a stopping round in me. what i was saying about stress shooting is, he has to stop me very quick before i can close. sure, he can just shoot in my direction and get lucky. but, he could do that if i had a gun just the same. as far as training to defend yourself and your family against someone who is extremely good at what they do. ie.. shooting you accurately, the only way to that is by killing them first.
 
<b>"...just that most people who break into homes are most likely not very well trained."</b>

The key word there is "most."
It's not the expected things that get you killed.

<b>"does having a gun yourself, prevent you from being shot?"</b>

Does having a sword do that for you?

It takes a lot less time to shoot someone from cover than it takes to charge them with a sword.
Can you use a sword from behind cover?

This is turning into a gun vs. blade discussion, why don't you join the thread here...

Knife vs Gun
 
I prefer a sword, myself. Granted, it has a shorter range. Granted, sword injuries aren't immediatley lethal. Granted, it takes a greater commitment and exposure to injury or death to bring it into play.

That's exactly why I prefer it. If I am close enough to deal damage with a sword, I am close enough to be damn sure the person I am trying to kill isn't my wife, daughter, Little Johnny's friend or the neighbors cat. (Well, OK.. maybe the neighbors cat, it has been pooping in the garden, right? ;-)

My goal in home defense is to protect my family first, myself second. Most important is that I not be an additional risk to them myself. With a handgun and adrenaline hyped nerves it is a bit too easy to start popping off rounds at the shadow behind the couch, without knowing for DEAD CERTAIN what that shadow is.

Training is well and good, and I'm sure it helps, but when riding that razors edge of panic thinking that "Some mutherf***r is in my house!!" I just have to believe that by having to put yourself at close enough range to engage with a sword, you are much more likely to identify the friendlies and to be %100 certain that the shadow/body/shape you are about to do grievous damage to is indeed one you WANT to.

Yes, you are more likely to get shot by the BG I'm sure... although I don't know that shooting them keeps you from getting shot either.

So, we have compounding chance (Yes, I am pulling these out of my arse, just guesses):
About 30% chance of being robbed?
If there is a robbery, about 90% chance no one is home at the time.
Probably about 40% chance the BG doesn't have a gun.
If he shoots, in the confusion I would bet 30-40% of the time he misses.
If he shoots and hits, 75% chance I spend some hospital time, but live (Include some % of paralyzed, etc.)

Getting to decapitate some idiot and try out that new blade: Priceless.. ;-P (Kidding)

Anyway, you get the idea... the actual chances of being in that situation aren't very good, and if you are in that situation you have decent odds of surviving. Weighing that against the possibility of hurting a loved one, I'll go for the less effective weapon.

Given the scenario that I know for dead certain what I am seeing is an intruder, and can positively ID them as NOT being a loved one, if I had a gun I'd shoot them, if I have my sword handy I'll stab them, and if not I will whack them with the closest heavy object I can find.

As to which I will keep in a handy place, specifically say to myself "Self, if anyone breaks in you can grab this before heading into the house, just in case." it will be my KC short sword, or perhaps the Wak when I get it done.

I will note, that perhaps with more extensive firearm training I would be more positive of my ability not to harm loved ones, but firearms just don't hold much interest for me so I'm unlikely to get that training, or own one for that matter. My pops has a 9 round .22 we shot a few times, after much safety lecturing. Other than that, I'm not very gun experienced. I am by no means anti-gun, I support the right to keep and bear arms, even if I choose not to excersize it myself.
 
it is pretty much impossible to discuss the sword being used for home defence without eventually comparing it with other weapons. this basically is a sword vs gun thread. is it my imagination, or was i told where to go??
 
Originally posted by Razoredj
Barring extraordinary circumstances, I don't think I'm off base saying that it's not physically possible to prevent a striker-fired automatic (as most if not all of those little POS .25s are) from firing by grabbing it tightly. You could cause it to "jam up" if you grabbed it tightly the nanosecond after it fired, preventing it from cycling the next round.
Click to expand...

Probably someone has already answered this, but I'm just getting around to reading this thread, and have to interject. In general, ANY semi-automatic weapon will not fire if it is not fully "in battery." Grabbing a handgun in extremis such as this, even a striker -fired handgun, can very likely cause it to be out of battery, and it will not fire. This goes for a Glock just as well as a Colt (two that I have personal experience with).

I wouldn't bet my life on being able to do it every time. But it CAN be done.
 
Quote from vikingblade;

<b>"it is pretty much impossible to discuss the sword being used for home defence without eventually comparing it with other weapons. this basically is a sword vs gun thread. is it my imagination, or was i told where to go??"</b>

No, you were given a suggestion. Take it or don't take it, as you please.
I for one, do not have the time or energy to post the same information in two different threads at the same time and don't see much need to repeat myself.

Go there and read it, or don't.

:rolleyes:
 
Just saying hi, Ken. I wouldn't dream of comming after you on your own turf. Nifty thread, but you could've saved a lot of wear, and tear on your finger tips by linking me to it, but hindsight's 20/20.

BTW, my "home defense" is the window, and not having anything worth stealing. Let the BG kill himself in a fit of depression because of the meager take. I'll call the cops from a payphone.
 
Hi SC,
Welcome to the Sword Forum.

Actually, when the Knife vs. Gun thread got started, this was a pretty dead thread. It was also never really intended to be a "Sword vs. Gun" thread.

BTW, I don't think you've "come after me" anywhere. We've had some good discussion.
 
Hello all. I've been lurking off and on Bladeforums for a few months, when the mood takes me. Found this thread very interesting, as it touches on personal experience, one quite recent.

I've been required twice in the last ten years to utilize a sword for defending my home. Being Canadian, our laws are quite restrictive when it comes to firearms, as has been mentioned. Given the easy option, no doubt a firearm would be the finest choice for self defense. Without the option, a sword can be a very nasty surprise to casual criminals. Pros, you better have all your ducks in a row.

In neither case was my choice of weaponry optimal, as they were hurried selections of what was closest at the time. Both cases were, shall we say... educational. Case one was two men attempting to break into my back shed. The weapon available to me at the time was a swept-hilt rapier, with a fairly heavy blade. Somewhat intimidating in this day and age.....which is about all it had going for it, as I am a very poor student of fence. They ran off panicked and yelling, after extremely hard application of the blade flat to one's butt (they were trying to fiddle the lock) so I freely admit, I got tactical surprise, and I got very lucky (fairly extensive practical H2H experience as well so I wasn't going in totally cold).

The second case, was a maniac with a baseball bat, breaking down my front door and charging up the stairs, and threatening my family. I had a Japanese hardwood practice sword handy, and I used it to subdue him and retain him for the police. Once again, I got lucky, in that the actual fight took place in the living room, so I had room to use the sword. He was also drunk, so his coordination was off. Had I had the rapier, or something as light, at the time, I would have likely been introduced to his bat.

Now incidents like these make a person somewhat glad of our restrictive laws on firearms in Canada, cause if the second fellow had access to a gun, I would have been facing it, given the situation. The other benefit is that firearms are not often used for "casual" crimes in Canadian small cities.

The downside is, you may as well forget about using them to defend yourself. I haven't decided what side I come down on yet:)

Anyways: if I had to design or find a sword to use as a weapon INSIDE A HOME these would be its attibutes:

A) length would be somewhere around 24 inches. Walls get in the way with anything longer. Also, a weapon of this size with a wide blade is INTIMIDATING, particularly in the confines of a house. A very important factor, 'cause if you can avoid any fight in the first place, you won.

B) The blade would be quite heavy and strong. When you need to parry a pipe or baseball bat, you do NOT want a slim, light blade, and you have generally NO room to move. A short, massy blade, if you know what you are doing, can cut quite well, some better than others of course.

C)A well developed and strong guard, able to be punched, and wide enough to guard your fingers well.

D)a well developed point. If it comes to a grapple, or goes to the ground (and it often will), you DO want to be able to stab, even if the blade is shortened. Having the option of a thrust is nice too, although its hard to imagine the home defense scenario where a standing thrust would be practical.

E) I would add a fairly heavy pommel, capable of hammering blows. Awfully handy if you are rolling around on the ground.

I am thinking something along the lines of a Cinquedea, a Falcata, or one of the earlier Roman swords would be darn hard to beat. Perhaps a Modern interpretation of a Falcata type blade with slightly changed point geometry and an Efficient "D" guard.

Ahh well, I'll leave it with you experts. Once again, the subject caught my eye, because of personal experience. Next time, I hope to have a more practical blade to hand. Or a gun.


Even
 
This is really an interesting story. Thanks for
sharing your experience and thoughts on it.
Would you mind giving us a bit more detail on the
encounter with the bat?
Did you actually parry a blow from the bat
with the Japanese practice sword?
If so could you have done it with a one-handed
hold? or was the two-handed hold absolutely
necessary?
Glad you came out ok in the encounters.
Are y'al allowed to have black-powder weapons
up there? A cap & ball black-powder
revolver is relatively cheap and fairly
reliable.
 
Quite simply, unless the intruder is someone you know, you're the one who knows the layout of your house and the burgler does not. Given the proper stealth techniques, I would think that one may be able to stake out a place in their hacienda from where they can launch a pre-emptive attack(?). But as has been stated here, training is the key.

Home invasions are another story and are rarely ever undertaken when the victims have been home for awhile. I used to live in Houston, the world capital of home invasions, and the MO of the home invader is that they stake out the home well in advance. They will try to discern a pattern of leaving and arrival times so the perps will generally be waiting at a vantage point upon their arrival. The perpetrators will launch the invasion seconds after the victims arrive home so there will be no opportunity for them to have a weapon at the ready (unless they happen to be packing).
 
....scared me, they develop a lot of force. As stated, he was drunk, and somewhat uncordinated. Due to the wall at his right hand, the only blow he could make was close to vertical, and it was telegraphed heavily.
I zoned diagonally back and to my right, and took out his fingers. It appears tough to hold a bat after that.

Any work was done 2H. Even then I would NOT want to parry the bat directly. The practice sword is quite tough, but any parries/blocks made would ideally be deflections at an angle to the momentum. In a pinch I suppose the practice sword may have absorbed a heavy blow...most of it anyways, but a bat has a LOT of momentum/force - I think trying it intentionally would be silly. In a house though, the instances where one could use the full force of a bat's (or a practice sword's) swing would be few and far between. We were in the living room (quite high). One handed work with a sword as heavy as these practice swords, against a weapon as heavy as a bat, I wouldn't recommend, ever, after seeing the force at which it cracked into the end table after he released it.

Had it been a hallway or another closed space, things would have been VERY different, as my assailant would have been unable to use large movements, and I wouldn't either. Thus I base my personal preferences on the fact that most spaces in a house are fairly small and trade the long practice sword for a shorter, heavy sword. More useful in more situations indoors, I am thinking.

Even
 
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