Victorinox 111mm: Liner lock vs. slide lock

S

statesevens

Joined
Mar 7, 2016
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I'm currently carrying a One-Hand Trekker which features a liner lock. I've had my eye on the Outrider for a while, but I'm really not sure about that slide lock system. It seems sort of cheap to me. Do any of you guys have experience with both locking systems? Is/was the Outrider ever available with a liner lock? Am I worrying over nothing?
 
I like the Slide-Lock. It seems smoother in action to me. It's plenty strong in my opinion, I treat locking Vics as slip joints anyhow. It's certainly easy to use, just pull the button back and close the blade.
 
My regular carry is the Vic Adventurer which has the side lock feature. It does look "cheap", but I have never had any problems with it. Have carried this model for at least 8 years, probably 10 or more. I find the side lock very easy to get used to where as liner locks are a pain in the butt to close. I have the One Handed Trekker and other Vic liner locks. I'd take the side lock feature anytime over it for convenience without loosing significant strength.
 
I have a couple of slide locks and a standard (non-one hand) trekker and I personally prefer the liner lock for reasons not necessarily having to do with the lock itself.

On the trekker the blade is more centered in the handle (more like a fixed blade) as opposed to being all the way to one side like the liner lock which I greatly prefer, though it's not a deal breaker. My real problem is the ring attachment. On the trekker it's centered and out of the way. On the slide locks it's on the side closest to your palm and rubs on the bottom of my palm. That becomes very uncomfortable with extended use. I've never used one long enough in a sitting to get blisters, but I have gotten a tender spot for a day or two where it rubs. I have size XL hands, so this might not be a problem for most people. The blade is a bit broader with a bit more belly and the bottle opener is locking and more robust on the trekker than the slide lock version if that matters to you.

If they added a scissors and the hole that holds the needle inside the scales of the smaller SAK's to the trekker it would be nearly perfect for me.
 
SAK liner lock is unique in that it's on the opposite side than typical and it's not just the blade tang sitting on the lock bar, but rather a sort of hook/latch that encases the bottom end of the tang. Like Legos or a watch latch. So, SAK liner lock I actually pretty strong given its dimensions.

The slide lock pushes the adjoining lockbar under tang but doesn't have the little curled edge to grab lower tang.

I kind of thought the liner lock was created to be a stronger lock to the slide, as the slide could just be used, but SAK shifted to the liner lock for OHO. < oh.. there's that too; no OHO with slide. Lol
 
I would suspect that the side lock is not as strong as the liner lock. But, how strong does it have to be with a traditional knife? The side lock is just fine for me. If you use a SAK rough, I'd get a liner lock model.
 
How is the blade play between the two lock types? I've seen a fair bit of play on every one of the SAK liner locks I've handled. What about the slide locks?
 
I clicked on this thread by accident, was going to the maintenance forum, but this in an interesting thread and SAKs are a major part of my work day knives so . . .
and someone keeps telling me my medium size single blade needs will be fulfilled by a SAK so . . .
anyway I haven't begun to look yet but does the slide lock come unlocked during some grips.

For instance some box knives with a slide lock get pressed and the blade slides out further than I would like so I have gone with folding box knives or fixed box knives.

long winded but : Is the slide well place ?

I imagine it being like the Spyderco Compression lock or ball lock as far as fitting into a slot in the blade. Is it anything like that ?

Thanks

PS: what is their longest blade folder locking or other wise ?
 
The 111mm size has about a 3" blade (cutting edge length, so the actual blade is about 3.25" or so). There are a few models (Hunter model?) larger and I have only handled them once. Saw the price and considered my use. Decided I am just fine with the 111mm size. If you're looking, the Adventurer model has been discontinued. I bought three spares when it was discontinued but the Boys Scout version was still available. You can see I like it.

Blade play = zero (side to side and up and down) on one I have used for 3 years or so. I left my last one at a job site, but didn't loose any sleep over it as the blade was chipped. Got home and put a new one in my pocket. If you like the 111mm size and want simple, check out the One Handed Sentinel (just a blade-single layer) or the Centurion (two layer, essentially a Tinker); both are liner locks. Zero blade play on each of mine. My One Handed Trekker (3 layer) has just a tad of up and down blade play and is a liner lock.

The side lock models do not come open.
 
I just compared my rucksack (side lock) and trekker (liner lock) a bit. Both had 3 1/8" cutting edge, both had no side to side play and both had a similar, small amount of up and down play. The trekker stops solidly when you reach the end of the up and down play, while the rucksack has a bit of spongy feel before the end of the play if that makes sense. I'm not sure if that's meaningful or not and these are just my personal examples. I've never accidentally had either type of lock disengage in use.
 
Both are plenty strong. Keep in mind the thickness of the blade involved, as well as the overall construction of the knife. The reality is that if you were stressing the lock to the point of failure, the actual motion might cause a blade, pivot or liner failure just as easily. In both cases you have a slip-joint construction knife with an additional lock, so blade play is going to reflect that. I find that I can one-hand closed my rucksack with little trouble and no risk, where as I don't always feel the same with any liner-lock, and in my life, one-hand closed is often more important than one-hand opening, hence why I carry the rucksack over the trekker. That said, the OHT and similar have a heaver bottle-opener/light pry tool than the slide lock knives, and that may be a bigger factor in your choice.
 
Wowbagger said:
PS: what is their longest blade folder locking or other wise ?
Click to expand...

The largest would be something in the 130mm "Rangergrip" size. These have a 3.9" blade. Like this:

sa9563mcx1000.jpg


gadgetgeek said:
Both are plenty strong. Keep in mind the thickness of the blade involved, as well as the overall construction of the knife. The reality is that if you were stressing the lock to the point of failure, the actual motion might cause a blade, pivot or liner failure just as easily. In both cases you have a slip-joint construction knife with an additional lock, so blade play is going to reflect that. I find that I can one-hand closed my rucksack with little trouble and no risk, where as I don't always feel the same with any liner-lock, and in my life, one-hand closed is often more important than one-hand opening, hence why I carry the rucksack over the trekker. That said, the OHT and similar have a heaver bottle-opener/light pry tool than the slide lock knives, and that may be a bigger factor in your choice.
Click to expand...

Got me wondering. Do the slide-lock models have a locking screwdriver/bottle opener like the liner locks?
 
Roamad said:
How is the blade play between the two lock types? I've seen a fair bit of play on every one of the SAK liner locks I've handled. What about the slide locks?
Click to expand...

My adventurer has no blade play while my rucksack has noticeable blade play. I'm referring here to vertical play. In the adventurer, you can get a little movement if you apply a bit of pressure.

I'm not sure why these two slide locks behave differently, but maybe the adventurer's two layers (correlating maybe to a larger spring thickness) gives it a stronger lockup. Just a WAG.

I personally don't like the linerlocks despite being a fan of everything else about Victorinox.
 
statesevens said:
I'm currently carrying a One-Hand Trekker which features a liner lock. I've had my eye on the Outrider for a while, but I'm really not sure about that slide lock system. It seems sort of cheap to me. Do any of you guys have experience with both locking systems? Is/was the Outrider ever available with a liner lock? Am I worrying over nothing?
Click to expand...

Posted this before but it's worth repeating. SAKwiki asked Victorinox about the strength of their slide lock and received this reply in August 2008:

The blade releases via the slider on the rear shell of the handle. It is comfortably and easy to operate and as you mentioned only for accidental closing. The bestsellers in this series are the Picnicker, Rucksack and the Outrider. The model Workchamp XL is aimed at knife collectors.

At the moment we are developing an improving the spring for the locking blade and slider system. During testing of an material sample the stress strain curve is a graphical representation of the relationship between stress,derived from measuring the load applied on the sample and strain derived from measuring the deformation of the sample i.e. elongation, compression, or distortion. Steel generally exhibits a very linear stress-strain relationship up to a well defined yield point. The linear portion of the curve is in the elastic region and the slope is the modulus of elasticity or Young`s modulus. A torque in physics, also called moment, is a vector that measures the tendency of a force to rotate an object about some axis(center). The magnitude of a torque is defined as the product of a force and the length of the lever arm(radius) M=FxI. To stay in the elastic region a torque of maximum 10,8Nm should not be exceeded.

However we found them to be insufficiently robust and sturdy for the fire brigades, the rescue services the police and army forces. For this reason we developed a knife (0,83-0,84) of the same shape and size but much stronger, with thicker rivets and blades, Liner-lock for the blade and powerful screwdriver. In this range you will find the Victorinox lock blade for one hand opening (e.g. Rescuetool ).
Click to expand...

The liner lock was Bundeswehr mil-spec for the new German Army Knife, produced in 2003. It is interesting that Victorinox had not given up trying to improve the slider lock five years later.

The slider lock Outrider was issued to Malaysian armed forces in 2009 with the corkscrew replaced by a shorty Phillips screwdriver. Presumably the corkscrew would have raised awkward questions in heavily Muslim Malaysia. The Bundeswehr was encouraged to drop the corkscrew by a parliamentary investigation into alcoholism in the armed forces.

Malaysian+Army+1.jpg


I would buy one of those.

The slider lock Rucksack was issued to the German Bundesgrenzenschutz (border patrol) with that devilish corkscrew replaced by a Phillips screwdriver. Note the glass breaker.

show_image.php


I would buy one of those too.

In 2005, the Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS, Federal Border Patrol) was renamed Bundespolizei (BPOL, Federal Police). The EU had open borders and the old name sounded like a Cold War relic. On 13 September 2015, Germany reintroduced border controls and the BPOL resumed its border patrol duties.
 
I think I'll stick with the liner lock for now, although those Ranger Grip models feature a push-button lock which is interesting. Also, I have MASSIVE hands and 130mm would be an ideal fit. Hmm...
 
You ought to give one a try although from a SAK perspective, the 130 mm ones are expensive.
 
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