Was this self-defense?

[AlongTheRazorsEdge]

Why would anyone in a first world society have to be an effective self defender in a low pay service job?

If my 5'4" daughter gets a job at a gas station, you expect her to have defensive capabilities? Against three masked robbers?

What about Grandpa?

As I posted links to earlier in the thread; the Supreme Court has ruled that law enforcement has no duty to protect citizens including elderly, women or even children in immediate danger. They also have no duty to enforce court orders like restraining orders. The only exception? People in their custody, aka arestees and prisoners..Let that sink in..

What does this mean? It means that you (not you specifically) are sorely mistaken if you think anyone but yourself is responsible for your or your families safety and protection. Think about this next time the usual suspects say things like.. "you don't need weapons", " what does an average citizen need weapons for?", "you don't need more than 10 rounds to hunt", "just call 911 and let the police handle it", "common sense regulations" etc.

 

[bikerector]

Ok I just watched the Las Vegas Video it was horrible and appalling. I have to put myself the store owners shoes. I think there is a good chance the store clerk was in fear for his life.

2 people walk in with ski masks one with a bag in hand deliberately giving the impression they are armed robbers.

I counted about 2 seconds from the masked man jumping over the counter to the point where he was stabbed. He stabbed him repeatedly for about 4 seconds.

He did not wait to find out if a shotgun came out of that bag nor did stand over him and stab him over and over for a few minutes. This happened fast, very fast. Watching this horrible video makes is seem like slow motion but it was very fast how much time did he have to think.

He is pissed off that does not matter getting put in a situation where one fears for their life the natural fight or flight also includes anger in a vicious way.

I hope the guy didn't die. I really mean that sincerely.

Two masked bandits entered a store.
One left.....

Case closed.

The person stabbed is expected to survive last I checked. He was stable in the hospital as of Tuesday this week, according to The Daily Wire News.

 

[AlongTheRazorsEdge]

My question is who cares whether or not this was self defense?
A thug was dealt some justice by a fed up store clerk, what more do you need ?

Instead of arguing about whether the store owner should or shouldn't take matters into their own hands or about how far they should take things and justification...ect , why not agree that people should just not steal or rob and let them face whatever consequences come their way if they choose to keep it up ?

Another question would be why people feel "justified" to judge others defensive actions after the fact, and from a location completely removed from the scene, based on a video which clearly does not cover all angles? Why would these self proclaimed "judges" not do the right thing and subject themselves to mortal terror while simultaneously making a life or death decision in 0.5 seconds or less, before feeling qualified to play God with another mans life and/or future?..A man who got up expecting to just go to work and come home, a man who didn't ask for any of this. It is sociopathic and sick.

 

[MolokaiRider]

As I posted links to earlier in the thread; the Supreme Court has ruled that law enforcement has no duty to protect citizens including elderly, women or even children in immediate danger. They also have no duty to enforce court orders like restraining orders. The only exception? People in their custody, aka arestees and prisoners..Let that sink in..

What does this mean? It means that you (not you specifically) are sorely mistaken if you think anyone but yourself is responsible for your or your families safety and protection. Think about this next time the usual suspects say things like.. "you don't need weapons", " what does an average citizen need weapons for?", "you don't need more than 10 rounds to hunt", "just call 911 and let the police handle it", "common sense regulations" etc.

I agree that people need the ability to defend themselves.

There are core, systemic issues of why robberies and criminal activity is becoming the new norm.

My comment was more a speculation on how absurd society has become, where it becomes necessary for people to have to work behind bulletproof glass, or carry a firearm 24/7 at work.

 

[Billy The Hungry]

My comment was more a speculation on how absurd society has become, where it becomes necessary for people to have to work behind bulletproof glass, or carry a firearm 24/7 at work.

Yes, it's honestly sad. I drag my tired butt out to go with the wife and kiddo on her errands when trust me, I'd rather not, just so I can keep an eye on them. Society has gone insane.

 

[AlongTheRazorsEdge]

I agree that people need the ability to defend themselves.

There are core, systemic issues of why robberies and criminal activity is becoming the new norm.

My comment was more a speculation on how absurd society has become, where it becomes necessary for people to have to work behind bulletproof glass, or carry a firearm 24/7 at work.

Agreed. I got what you were saying. What I wrote reinforced what you said, also I don't think that the indisputable fact that law enforcement has no duty to protect can be repeated enough. Especially considering how some use imaginary .gov/leo protection as the selling point to taking our rights and artificially handicapping us with outrageous and unhuman restrictions on what is considered "justified" response to deadly threats.

 

[DocJD]

Knowing what’s around you, is a good thing.


I’m just an invisible guy on the internet. I would be parroting experts.
Please buy, the book. D DocJD read it, and it gave him the courage to charge an overwhelming force.

These "experts " were NOT there to help this shop owner .

He had only himself , his little knife and the heart of a lion .

He performed admirably , IMO . With what he had available , right then and there .

Could he perhaps now learn better ways to handle such threats ?...of course he could.

I expect he will be much better prepared next time .

 

[DocJD]

bulletproof kiosk

If this is world you find acceptable , you are apt to be satisfied by the ever more dystopian future .

I would prefer a world where good honest folks can be reasonably safe and secure in their homes and at work ...without being forted up and armed to the teeth .

Remove the violent savages from the environment .

It's been done before and is ultimately necessary for society to survive .

All it takes is the will .

 

[Drop bear]

It does though, if criminals rights are highly valued it means they get to do whatever they want until the justice system catches up with them if at all.
The damage is already done to law abiding citizens at that point, and the law was much less fair for them.
I'm not talking about their rights after the fact I'm talking about a law abiding citizens right to take action now stopped damage that can't be undone by the justice after the fact.


We can still have laws yet also be very lenient on victims who take action.
We can stop protecting criminals and let the life they lead be as risky of a proposition as possible.

Everyone's rights are highly valued. Criminal rights are just where it is hard work.

But it is important to put that work in.

Because if only the right people have rights then we don't have the society we pretend we do.

 

[Drop bear]

I’m trying to absorb all this and keep up.
So, he was so overcome with fear, he walked into a room, containing two masked men.
Am I right so far?

If that is where the knife is.

 

[David Mary]

Everyone's rights are highly valued. Criminal rights are just where it is hard work.

But it is important to put that work in.

Because if only the right people have rights then we don't have the society we pretend we do.

I think it is better to put it as "the rights of the accused". Because perpetrating crime forfeits rights. If I kill, I have disregarded others' right to life, so I forfeit my own. Or on a lesser scale, if I steal, then I forfeit equal value in terms of money and/or hardship that my thieving imposed. But I agree with you. It is important for a due process of law that acknowledges the rights of the accused to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

 

[GmpaJim]

Everything after…owner comes form back, and looks at them wearing masks is meaningless from a self defense point of view. We’re talking self defense here. When he continues into the room, with two masked men, he has chosen merchandise defense.
If he had chosen to retreat, his self defense would have then switched to the back room. Continue out of the building, watching for a back doorman, a good choice, since his weapon was in enemy territory or choose the back room to defend. That’s provided he had another knife there. I don’t even believe I’m saying that, but it is a knife forum.
Self defense happens in your head in class, then in muscle memory in training. The fog of war, the fear of war never leaves. Knowledge lessens it.
Do you need DELTA skills? No. But you should know things like, strange dogs may bite, Hells Angels can be cranky, don’t go into a room with two masked men.
I hope this isn’t light entertainment, because somewhere, right now…..
Stay in the back room!! Don’t believe me? listen to Kenny Roger’s The Gambler.

 

[AlongTheRazorsEdge]

Because if only the right people have rights then we don't have the society we pretend we do.

We would have the society this country was founded on and intended to have until it was infiltrated and is now actively being sabotaged, destabilized and intentionally destroyed from within.

Convicted criminals rights? Murderer, rapist, child molester, violent criminal rights? Slap on the wrist for criminals or flat out release back on the streets? We've seen this before, from the bolsheviks to overthrow, takeover and ultimately destroy a country they recruited the help of the worst of their society; the idea that the new bolsheviks give a damn about anybody's rights (including their useful idiot pawns/supporters) is the part that is 110% pretend.

 

[Blade Lab]

We would have the society this country was founded on and intended to have until it was infiltrated and is now actively being sabotaged, destabilized and intentionally destroyed from within.

Convicted criminals rights? Murderer, rapist, child molester, violent criminal rights? Slap on the wrist for criminals or flat out release back on the streets? We've seen this before, from the bolsheviks to overthrow, takeover and ultimately destroy a country they recruited the help of the worst of their society; the idea that the new bolsheviks give a damn about anybody's rights (including their useful idiot pawns/supporters) is the part that is 110% pretend.

So we should just bag the 6th Amendment?

 

[AlongTheRazorsEdge]

So we should just bag the 6th Amendment?

These same people pushing "criminals rights" want to "bag" the 1st and the 2nd. Which is it? Are they for the constitutional foundations or not?

Convicted violent and sexual criminals like I said in the quoted post. The 6th is specific to accused criminals, not convicted.

This is a sick and perverted joke, sick and perverted like those who push it. First they encourage criminals to commit crime by either not charging, releasing them back to the streets or giving them weak slap on the wrist punishments which enboldens them..then you add the fact that law enforcement has no duty to protect as affirmed by the supreme court..then you artificially restrain decent people with impossible conditions to defend themselves "legally" or "justifiably", so either they allow themselves to be victimized by criminals or they get victimized by the system; and a good, decent person ends up in prison with a real sentence that they should have been giving actual criminals..and what you end up with is what we have today, a nearly lawless society where criminals feel entitled and priveledged to victimize anyone they want with little to no reprecussions because they know that the infiltrator bolsheviks have their back and violate the rights of any decent person who dares to do the right thing.

 

[Blade Lab]

S

These same people pushing "criminals rights" want to "bag" the 1st and the 2nd. Which is it? Are they for the constitutional foundations or not?

No, I don't think that's accurate. I guess there'd be some support for ending the 2nd, but I don't think anyone wants to cancel the 1st. Do you want to do away with the 6th?

Convicted violent and sexual criminals like I said in the quoted post. The 6th is specific to accused criminals, not convicted.

True, and the 8th Amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishment. Ratified in 1791.

This is a sick and perverted joke, sick and perverted like those who push it. First they encourage criminals to commit crime by either not charging, releasing them back to the streets or giving them weak slap on the wrist punishments which enboldens them..then you add the fact that law enforcement has no duty to protect as affirmed by the supreme court..then you artificially restrain decent people with impossible conditions to defend themselves "legally" or "justifiably", so either they allow themselves to be victimized by criminals or they get victimized by the system; and a good, decent person ends up in prison with a real sentence that they should have been giving actual criminals..and what you end up with is what we have today, a nearly lawless society where criminals feel entitled and priveledged to victimize anyone they want with little to no reprecussions because they know that the infiltrator bolsheviks have their back and violate the rights of any decent person who dares to do the right thing.

You keep saying that, but I don't see a lot of examples of serious criminals not being charged or getting slaps on the wrist. I'm sure it happens, but it's hardly the norm in my experience. It's certainly the case that we have the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world, and it's not exactly good company we're in:

1. United States — 629
2. Rwanda — 580
3. Turkmenistan — 576
4. El Salvador — 564
5. Cuba — 510

 

[Carboniferous]

Way beyond productive discourse in this thread. Valiant effort from some.