Water-based Contact Cement Test

[Patrice Lemée]

A promised, I tested 3 water based cements and a regular solvent-based one. I used some scrap leather I had and it was a little dry so it ripped pretty easily but it still gives a good enough idea to compare the cements.

I did 3 strips for each:
1) Skin-Skin: Skin sides together, one coat of cement
2) Skin-Rough: Skin to rough side, one coat on the skin side, 2 coats on the rough side.
3) Rough-Rough: Rough sides together, 2 coats on each.

(Note: The number of coats were as per Mr. Long's instructions in his DVDs which I highly recommend by the way)

All the cements were let to dry as instructed on the containers. Water based did take a little longer to dry but not as much as they said one some containers.

Individual results:

1) Tandy Ecoweld

Skin-Skin: Came unglued
Skin-Rough: Came unglued
Rough-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped
(Disregard the 4th test)

2) Tandy Craftsman LG2 (at the store they told me it was discontinued)

Skin-Skin: Came unglued
Skin-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped
Rough-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped
(Disregard the 4th test)

3) Lepage Regular Contact Cement

Skin-Skin: Came unglued
Skin-Rough: Came unglued
Rough-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped

4) Lepage Low-Odor (water-based) contact cement

Skin-Skin: Came unglued (but got the best results of the 4)
Skin-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped
Rough-Rough: Glue held, leather ripped

Here are the 4 on order of how they performed from worst to best.

4th Place: Tandy Ecoweld

Very disappointing. Lowest adhesion of all of them

3rd Place: Lepage Regular Contact Cement

Another disappointment. This was suppose to be my control to compare the water-based cements by and it did not perform as well as 2 of them.

2nd Place: Tandy Craftsman LG2

One of the 2 best but came in second place because it did not perform quite as well as the winner in the Skin-Skin test and may be discontinued.

1st Place: Lepage Low-Odor (water-based) contact cement

A clear winner, in this test anyway. Best adhesion in all the tests. Plus it is easily available at your local hardware store. Well in Canada anyway, not sure about the US but I am sure that you also have a low-odor version of the commercial contact cement available in the hardware stores and I don't see why it would not perform as well.

Conclusions:

I did not test Barge contact cement, which is the one you see mentioned most of the time for leatherwork but given how the Lepage low-odor faired and the fact that it is just a pleasure to work with (goes on easily, no smell, everything washes out with water) I will definitely be using it from now on. I also don't know how it would perform if you were to thin it with water but given it's already milk-like consistency I don't see the need except to “revive” an old batch. Something that I also don't see the need for given low price and availability.

When I get the time I will do the test again with “fresh” leather to see if it makes any difference. I'll post the results on this thread.

I hope this has at least peaked your interest in the water-based cements and hopefully enough to give it a try. The more people who try them, the better we'll know how they perform and maybe we can save ourselves a brain cell or 2.

Feel free to add your own results and thanks for reading.

 

[rayban]

Did you rough up the "skin" surface with sandpaper, or some others method? It doesn't stand a chance unless you do.

 

[sheathmaker]

Patrice, thank you for taking the time (and expense) to perform these tests. Very useful information, not using actual Barge notwithstanding.

A question, please.

How long were the pieces allowed to dry before the attempt to separate them? If less than 24 hours, the average total cure time, the test loses quite a bit of validity.

As Rick mentioned, it is a good idea to rough up any grain to grain application prior to applying the adhesive as that will really enhance the adhesion and durability.

Again, thank you for your interest and effort, and I will look into the eco friendly product you like as a result of your testing.


Paul

 

[Patrice Lemée]

No Rick, I did not do anything to the leather. My thinking behind this was to see how it fared on the skin side of leather without doing anything to it since roughing it would make it a little like the rough side and I was already testing that. But I see how that would make the test more thorough so I'll add that when I redo it with "fresh" leather.

Paul, sorry I forgot to add that the pieces were indeed allowed to dry for a full 24 hours.
I will also try and include barge in the next test. I was thinking that all solvent based must be relatively similar in strength but that may not be the case. That said, if the water based I tested and liked performs as it did in the test I would not be using any solvent based cements, no matter how well they do. Well maybe if I was making a sheath that I knew was gonna be subjected to a lot of water. Not sure how water affects the water-based stuff once cured. Guess I need another test.

Thanks for you help and interest guys.

 

[leatherman]

Thank you so much for taking the time, and money, to do this!

I've always used Weldwood brand, and fumes do concern me, so the fume free aspect is attractive.

 

[claude scott]

Thanks Patrice I'm also interested in water based cements not only fumes but cleanup as well

 

[Patrice Lemée]

Ok, next batch is drying, results in 24 hours. I used fresh leather (well fresher anyway ) and scoffed up the leather in one of the tests. I found a old (but not opened) tube of barge cement. It was still very liquid so I included it in the test. Maybe not perfect but we'll see how it does. I also did one of each (water and solvent based) that I will saturate in water before pulling apart to see if this is where the water based can't compete.

Stay posted. Glad you guys are interested. I really can't give anything back leatherwork wise for all the help you have given me so I am very glad that this may be of help to some. :thumbup:

 

[ice-pic]

This is good stuff,thank you Patrice.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

Honestly - I had never considered a water based option - I am stoked to see this - and can't wait to see how Barge fares.

TF

 

[Patrice Lemée]

Second Test

Again I did 3 strips for each but a little differently as suggested:
1) Skin-Skin: Skin sides together, no scuffing of the surface.
2) Skin-Skin: Skin sides together, surface scuffed with 100 grit sandpaper.
3) Rough-Rough: Rough sides together.

All done with one coat of cement, waited till dry to the touch to assemble them, hammered and then left to dry for 24 hours.

Here are the individual results in no particular order this time. I think a description of the results is a better way to do it than trying to place them in order.

Tandy Ecoweld

Definitely the worst one. As you can see here, it even failed a bit the rough-rough test. With the other water-based alternatives fairing much better, I will simply not use this one or include it in any further testing I do.

Tandy Craftsman LG2

This time it outperformed a little the Lepage water-based cement. Not sure why compared to the first test but I will definitely use it and even do more testing. Only downside is the fact that it may be discontinued. I'll have to inquire with Tandy about that.

Lepage Low-Odor (water-based) contact cement

For some reason it did not do as well in this test. Again no idea why. Of course this is a homemade test and even if I try my best to keep all the variables the same it still isn't perfect. But in pulling them apart I can definitely feel that this one is as good as the Craftsman LG2 and will also be on my to use list and included in further testing.

Lepage Regular Contact Cement

This one did not perform as well as the Barge and even a little worst than the Craftsman LG2. Plus it seems to have a stronger odor than the barge so all in all, I will not be using this one anymore either. If I have to smell the fumes at least I'll use the cement that performs the best.

Barge All Purpose Cement

This one lived up to it's reputation. But we already knew that so this was more a baseline for comparing the water based cements. (Something I thought the Lepage Solvent based cement was suppose to be.)

A group pic

Finally here is the results of the water soaked samples. I ran them under the faucet for about a minute, bending them to make sure I had some good water penetration. As you can see in this case, the barge cement performed as well as it did with a dry piece of leather. The water based cement did not but I am not sure the water was the cause. As you can see, the middle was still dry and it should have failed on the sides which were soaked. So again I would not give up right away but do more testing. Of course, this was an extreme test. If your sheath gets this soaked on a regular basis, maybe the kind of contact cement used is the least of your worries. Kidding asside, is for some reason you do encounter such hard conditions on a regular basis, I would definitely use Barge.

A few conclusions:

1) First of all, no matter what glue you use, roughing up the surface is essential. I am not glue expert but I am pretty sure that the performance of all of them is directly influenced by how deep they penetrate the leather. Even for barge, which is considered one if not the best performance wise, it will hold only the leather it permeates. I used 100grit paper in this test but I would suggest coarser grits.

2) This test was taken to the extreme of ripping the leather apart. For some glues, even if it looks like they did not do that well, it still took quite a bit of force to be able to pull the pieces apart. If I am not mistaken most of the time the glue is an added precaution to reinforce the stitching. Given this, I would feel confident in giving the 2 best water-based cements in this test a try.

3) I did not test the cleanup part but given the water based nature of the products I think it would fare pretty well. I'll try and post results of some cleanup when I make my next sheath.

That's it folks. I wish I had some clearer results for you but my “amateur” way of performing the tests might not be good enough for that. Still I think that it showed that there is definitely some potential with the water-based cements. And why not? Look at how far water-based paints have come. As I've said before, I hope that some of you will take the testing farther and please feel free to post any results you get, be it good of bad, in this thread.

 

[sheathmaker]

Patrice, again my profound thanks for the time, effort, and most excellent commentary on the results. You are absolutely right, the cement is there as a back up to the stitching, and once an item is stitched that reduces the chance that any cement will fail.

Your net conclusion that the cement must permeate the leather fibers is also correct and most important. That is why I always use two coats minimum on the flesh to flesh application. I want a sub surface to sub surface bond. The roughing up of a grain to grain application is also very wise, and important.

I have been unable to find the Lepage Low Odor product here locally. I will try San Antonio next. Based on your tests, I think it is the one I would most trust, although it sounds like the LG2 would be promising as well.

Thank you again for your most excellent efforts and results.

Paul

 

[ice-pic]

I just called LEPAGE® BRAND PRODUCTS in canada.About 2 min. worth of recorded phone recordings please press 1,etc.Finally got through.
Representative told me I can't order online,and product is not available in the US,and there is not a locktite version.
I think I might give up for now.

 

[Rick Lowe]

Very interesting testing! Thanks from me too, Patrice. I've been using the water based, low voc, product from Weldwood for the last 6months and have been very pleased. Takes a bit longer to cure before using, but no fumes and thinning with water more than offset that. Just tried taking apart a "mistake" that had cured the 24hrs. and it would not seperate without destroying the two pieces. In the US can be found in Lowe's, Home Depot and other hardware stores.

 

[Patrice Lemée]

Sorry ice-pic that it is not available in the US. I was pretty sure that there must be something similar in the US and it looks like there is as Rick stated.

Rick, I appreciate you taking the time to post your personal results here. I am glad there is a similar product easily available in the US. It looks more and more like these are a viable alternative to the solvent based cements.

Thanks for participating in this guys.

 

[ice-pic]

No worries Patrice I am going to try the Weldwood,it looks like it will suit me fine.
As for the LEPAGE they are represented by Locktite in the US I think,and it may become available in some form of locktite product in the future.

I seem to have a hunters mentality and when I start to hunt something down I have a hard time letting go.Your testing is very interesting and I hope there is more to come.
J

 

[leatherman]

Mucilage, that is the product that comes to mind when I think LePages. Back in the day that stuff was everywhere, and on everything.