WC Kelly Perfect Ax, Charleston WV, True Temper - insight?

[MikeLV]

From a local store that is more antique furniture than anything else comes this delightful axe after I asked if they had any - which they did - down deep in the basement!

Marked on one side "True Temper", on the other as

WC Kelly Perfect
Charleston WV USA
Reg US Pat Off
small numbers (not clear at this time)

21" overall length
Head is 6.25" wide
Edge is 3.5" tall

Head is on upside down.

Questions are -

1. After studying the Yesteryearstools page - appears this name/location combo was only early in the 1900's, after 1904 and before 1920 - is that correct?

2. Handle is OLD - is there any reason to believe it is ORIGINAL? as I would like to replace it with a newer one.

3. Edge - sharpen/not sharpen? - I hate ruining interesting artifacts!

Thanks

Mike

 

[Square_peg]

Certainly not an original haft. It's a boy's axe. It would have had an haft about 28" long. Would have had a curved haft. And Kelly never hung their axes upside down. That haft looks like someone re-purposed an old double bit haft.

The Kelly Charleston plant remained in operation until May 28, 1982. But your axe looks like an old one to me - I would guess 1930's or earlier.

Please do re-haft it and put it to work. I doubt you'd ever find any better boy's axe.

 

[bbforstr]

Square_peg is spot on. I would definitely sharpen it. It's been sharpened quite a bit before. It has had some damage to the toe but overall it looks like a good tool. Nice find.

 

[300Six]

As with the previous advice this one is far from pristine from having seen a considerable amount of use but the poll has not been mushroomed such as often happens over the course of 50+ years. Clean it up, reprofile and sharpen the blade, fit on another handle and get the old girl back into circulation for another 50 years.

 

[Operator1975]

Handle appears to be an old specimen for sure, but not ideal for that head. Looks like a boys head, or in that area. Otherwise it looks to be in pretty darn good shape overall. So, it depends on what you want to do with it. It could be a user, and a good one at that. Or it could be a keeper. So up to you. It is old. That kind of stamping was used all the way up into the 1940s actually. The timeline with Kelly is a disaster to really try and pinpoint items, as they used various stamps at various times over various times. This was to hold loyal customers that were perhaps not inclined to purchasing newer Kelly axes, even though for all intents they were the same. I have around 6 or so of that kind of marking, and they are all good metal overall. I would agree with above, and probably place that between 1900-1930ish. Good find!

 

[gben]

MikeLV, It is nice that you think about the history of artifacts before you alter or work on them, that is sort of rare these days.

Also rare are good memories, as only two months ago Steve Tall and others sorted out the dating of 20th century Kelly axes very well in a thread here and there is not much mystery to it anymore an no guessing is necessary.

American Fork and Hoe owned the "True Temper" name and bought Kelly in 1930, so if a Kelly Axe says "True Temper on it it is 1930 or later. In 1949 American Fork and Hoe changed their corporate name to True Temper.

American Fork and Hoe also in 1930 started using "works" in stamping axes instead of "Mfg Co." or "Tool Co.".

Charlestown axes 1904-1930 would be marked "co." and Charlestown with no "true temper", before 1904 they would be marked Alexandria.

A gentleman asked Steve Tall specifically about an axe that was stamped TT on one side and Kelly on the other and he surmised that it must have been made in 1930 or shortly after when American Fork and Hoe might have added the True Temper name to existing stock before selling it.

By the way, I have a box of NOS Turner-Day boy's axe handles that are over 40 years old, if you want to carefully measure the length, width and height of the eye in your axe head I will see if one of them is a close fit.

So MikeLV your axe is most likely from the early 1930s after American Fork and Hoe bought Kelly. Steve Tall says he has seen advertisements for True Temper Kelly Works axes from as early as 1938.

 

[300Six]

By the way, I have a box of NOS Turner-Day boy's axe handles that are over 40 years old, if you want to carefully measure the length, width and height of the eye in your axe head I will see if one of them is a close fit.

Now that is a very nice gesture that's in keeping with the vintage of the head. And a good way to move old handles along to deserving homes!

 

[halfaxe]

Axes like that from the 20's-30's with no mushrooming are my favorites for rehabbing and using. That time period was the peak in quality in my opinion.

 

[MikeLV]

MikeLV, It is nice that you think about the history of artifacts before you alter or work on them, that is sort of rare these days.

Also rare are good memories, as only two months ago Steve Tall and others sorted out the dating of 20th century Kelly axes very well in a thread here and there is not much mystery to it anymore an no guessing is necessary.

American Fork and Hoe owned the "True Temper" name and bought Kelly in 1930, so if a Kelly Axe says "True Temper on it it is 1930 or later. In 1949 American Fork and Hoe changed their corporate name to True Temper.

American Fork and Hoe also in 1930 started using "works" in stamping axes instead of "Mfg Co." or "Tool Co.".

Charlestown axes 1904-1930 would be marked "co." and Charlestown with no "true temper", before 1904 they would be marked Alexandria.

A gentleman asked Steve Tall specifically about an axe that was stamped TT on one side and Kelly on the other and he surmised that it must have been made in 1930 or shortly after when American Fork and Hoe might have added the True Temper name to existing stock before selling it.

By the way, I have a box of NOS Turner-Day boy's axe handles that are over 40 years old, if you want to carefully measure the length, width and height of the eye in your axe head I will see if one of them is a close fit.

So MikeLV your axe is most likely from the early 1930s after American Fork and Hoe bought Kelly. Steve Tall says he has seen advertisements for True Temper Kelly Works axes from as early as 1938.

Thanks so much to everyone for helping sort this out. I will be removing the poorly installed replacement handle this afternoon, do some more wirebrushing, and measuring the eye as I am REALLY INTERESTED in using an older replacement handle as offered. Intend to sharpen and use in normal maintenance around the farm and fence rows, likely keeping inside the PU. There is some minor mushroom damage that I am NOT going to "fix" as I think it helps tell a story.

 

[Operator1975]

MikeLV, It is nice that you think about the history of artifacts before you alter or work on them, that is sort of rare these days.

Also rare are good memories, as only two months ago Steve Tall and others sorted out the dating of 20th century Kelly axes very well in a thread here and there is not much mystery to it anymore an no guessing is necessary.

American Fork and Hoe owned the "True Temper" name and bought Kelly in 1930, so if a Kelly Axe says "True Temper on it it is 1930 or later. In 1949 American Fork and Hoe changed their corporate name to True Temper.

American Fork and Hoe also in 1930 started using "works" in stamping axes instead of "Mfg Co." or "Tool Co.".

Charlestown axes 1904-1930 would be marked "co." and Charlestown with no "true temper", before 1904 they would be marked Alexandria.

A gentleman asked Steve Tall specifically about an axe that was stamped TT on one side and Kelly on the other and he surmised that it must have been made in 1930 or shortly after when American Fork and Hoe might have added the True Temper name to existing stock before selling it.

By the way, I have a box of NOS Turner-Day boy's axe handles that are over 40 years old, if you want to carefully measure the length, width and height of the eye in your axe head I will see if one of them is a close fit.

So MikeLV your axe is most likely from the early 1930s after American Fork and Hoe bought Kelly. Steve Tall says he has seen advertisements for True Temper Kelly Works axes from as early as 1938.

The above is the outline as laid out in Yesteryear Tools, and for the most part is correct, but is not 100% accurate, as they did not abide by this exact time line, especially with the True Temper name. I have seen them as early as 1928. So it can get especially confusing. And we are only talking about one company. Ugh.

 

[MikeLV]

MikeLV, It is nice that you think about the history of artifacts before you alter or work on them, that is sort of rare these days.

By the way, I have a box of NOS Turner-Day boy's axe handles that are over 40 years old, if you want to carefully measure the length, width and height of the eye in your axe head I will see if one of them is a close fit.

Eye Dimensions
Top = 2-1/16" x 5/8" (almost 11/16")
Bottom = 2" x 5/8"
Height = 2-9/16"

Barely visible numbers below "REG US PAT OFF" seems to be "No. 210847" after poking around on the internet

 

[gben]

I have seen them as early as 1928. .

What does that mean? You were not around looking at axes in 1928, and you don't have any period literature from 1928 or a registered dated axe from that year so it means nothing. And if you did have any real info why not put it up like Steve Tall does instead of just saying you do? Too much work? It seems like most people on internet forums never heard that tired old saying Talk Is Cheap.

Anyway, the first handle I pulled out of the box measured 2" x 3/4" by over 3 1/4" long so it will need very little work to fit your axe head Mike. These handles came out of an old industrial supply warehouse in my town packed in boxes all marked with delivery dates from the early 1970s and they are much lighter and better shaped than what you can buy now in a hardware store. I shot these photos a few minutes ago:

Old handles are harder to find than old axe heads by far. If you get a chance check out my thread on vintage handles here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1323292-The-Vintage-handle-information-thread

 

[Operator1975]

What does that mean? You were not around looking at axes in 1928, and you don't have any period literature from 1928 or a registered dated axe from that year so it means nothing. And if you did have any real info why not put it up like Steve Tall does instead of just saying you do? Too much work? It seems like most people on internet forums never heard that tired old saying Talk Is Cheap.

Wow. Lol.

 

[Operator1975]

So, here is an old True Temper Garden Book I have.



This I thought was made in 1927, but alas it was produced in 1934. Copyright vs print date.



Last page gives a good overview of the timeline and the thoughts of AFHCo.



So, what I thought was pre 1930, in this case I thought it was 1928, printed(copyright) of 1927, was actually printed in 1934, so post 1930 acquisition of Kelly by AFHCo, which makes sense for what we know. Damn timelines are confusing for sure.

Oh, and just because someone doesn't post a Powerpoint presentation on dates, times, etc doesn't give someone else the right to treat others like an a**.

I still think I have another reference of where True Temper was on a Kelly axe pre 1930, but Ill have to dig, see what I can find.

Thanks!

Oh btw, thats still a great axe head you have there!

 

[Square_peg]

That time period was the peak in quality in my opinion.

Probably true for many makers of tools. There was real competition among makers and the prevalence of manual labor more rapidly revealed the differences in quality among the various makers. But in some industries that competition and excellence continued even in to the 1960s and 70s.

 

[Archienj7]

I live 35 minutes away from Charleston. That would be a nice one to hold on to and pass down.

 

[Steve Tall]

...I still think I have another reference of where True Temper was on a Kelly axe pre 1930, but Ill have to dig, see what I can find...

Perhaps you're thinking of page 5 (Figure 9) of "An Ax to Grind", which shows "Some standard patterns manufactured by True Temper Kelly in 1925", with a page from a "Kelly Axe & Tool Works" / American Fork & Hoe" catalog. I'm thinking the 1925 date is a mistake/typo, since the acquisition by AF&H is well-documented as occurring in 1930.

http://www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/an_ax_to_grind.pdf

 

[Steve Tall]

I live 35 minutes away from Charleston. That would be a nice one to hold on to and pass down.

You might be interested in this photo and site (in case you haven't seen it before): The old Kelly factory in Charleston, with the location of what was later built there (McDonalds, K-Mart, etc.)

http://www.mywvhome.com/fifties/kelly.html

 

[stevewest]

So, here is an old True Temper Garden Book I have.



This I thought was made in 1927, but alas it was produced in 1934. Copyright vs print date.



Last page gives a good overview of the timeline and the thoughts of AFHCo.



So, what I thought was pre 1930, in this case I thought it was 1928, printed(copyright) of 1927, was actually printed in 1934, so post 1930 acquisition of Kelly by AFHCo, which makes sense for what we know. Damn timelines are confusing for sure.

Oh, and just because someone doesn't post a Powerpoint presentation on dates, times, etc doesn't give someone else the right to treat others like an a**.

I still think I have another reference of where True Temper was on a Kelly axe pre 1930, but Ill have to dig, see what I can find.

Thanks!

Oh btw, thats still a great axe head you have there!

Beautiful illustration on that catalog.

 

[Operator1975]

Perhaps you're thinking of page 5 (Figure 9) of "An Ax to Grind", which shows "Some standard patterns manufactured by True Temper Kelly in 1925", with a page from a "Kelly Axe & Tool Works" / American Fork & Hoe" catalog. I'm thinking the 1925 date is a mistake/typo, since the acquisition by AF&H is well-documented as occurring in 1930.

http://www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/an_ax_to_grind.pdf

This very well could be it, I am not sure. I could of swore there was a pic/reference out there. It could of been in my emails with Tom Lammond on the subject, which I don't have anymore.

I didnt mean to derail this guys thread, so I apologize. I will start a new on on Kelly and any information that we have.