WC Kelly Perfect Ax, Charleston WV, True Temper - insight?

Old Axeman · Dec 8, 2015

There is no mistake/ typo in figure 9 on page 5 of "an ax to grind" On the top of page 50 of catalog 30 which is shown it has "1925 REVISED STANDARD AXE LIST". Page 51 has the standard pattern chart shown in figure 9. The cover shows this to be catalog 30, but it is dated inside as 1925. This comes direct from an original master catalog I got , along with a lot of other tool catalogs, from a number of very old hardware stores and lumber yards some of who had been in the same locations since the late 19c. This was in the later 1960s and 70s. They were glad for me to clean out their old files. I really miss the days before Home Depot, Lowes, and Internet shopping. Sorry, I can not show you a picture of the pages mentioned. I dont have those computer skills and would rather spend my time wood working than learning more about the computer. Bernie W.

Operator1975 · Dec 8, 2015

Old Axeman said:
There is no mistake/ typo in figure 9 on page 5 of "an ax to grind" On the top of page 50 of catalog 30 which is shown it has "1925 REVISED STANDARD AXE LIST". Page 51 has the standard pattern chart shown in figure 9. The cover shows this to be catalog 30, but it is dated inside as 1925. This comes direct from an original master catalog I got , along with a lot of other tool catalogs, from a number of very old hardware stores and lumber yards some of who had been in the same locations since the late 19c. This was in the later 1960s and 70s. They were glad for me to clean out their old files. I really miss the days before Home Depot, Lowes, and Internet shopping. Sorry, I can not show you a picture of the pages mentioned. I dont have those computer skills and would rather spend my time wood working than learning more about the computer. Bernie W.

Well, this might indeed confirm what I was thinking then about TT being on axes pre 1930. No way of really knowing without seeing it. Bernie is that catalog or any other catalogs you have available by chance? Thanks for the time.

rjdankert · Dec 8, 2015

Operator1975 said:
So, here is an old True Temper Garden Book I have. . .

Thanks for the post.

Bob

Steve Tall · Dec 8, 2015

Old Axeman said:
There is no mistake/ typo in figure 9 on page 5 of "an ax to grind" On the top of page 50 of catalog 30 which is shown it has "1925 REVISED STANDARD AXE LIST". Page 51 has the standard pattern chart shown in figure 9. The cover shows this to be catalog 30, but it is dated inside as 1925. This comes direct from an original master catalog I got , along with a lot of other tool catalogs, from a number of very old hardware stores and lumber yards some of who had been in the same locations since the late 19c. This was in the later 1960s and 70s. They were glad for me to clean out their old files. I really miss the days before Home Depot, Lowes, and Internet shopping. Sorry, I can not show you a picture of the pages mentioned. I dont have those computer skills and would rather spend my time wood working than learning more about the computer. Bernie W.

Thanks for the additional information. What doesn't make sense to me is why the combined logos for the two companies would be used 5 years before the 1930 merger, and why Kelly Axe would be listed as being "of the American Fork & Hoe Company, Charleston, WV" when the merger wouldn't occur until 5 years later (if the actual publication date of the catalog was in 1925).

I've seen a reference to Catalog 30 as being "undated", so I'm interested to know if the 1925 date appeared anywhere else besides the Standard Axe List (because that list might have been the most current one from some years back).

Some photos found online, from the first few pages of Catalog 30 (with no dates listed):

Operator1975 · Dec 8, 2015

Steve Tall said:
Thanks for the additional information. What doesn't make sense to me is why the combined logos for the two companies would be used 5 years before the 1930 merger, and why Kelly Axe would be listed as being "of the American Fork & Hoe Company, Charleston, WV" when the merger wouldn't occur until 5 years later (if the actual publication date of the catalog was in 1925).

I've seen a reference to Catalog 30 as being "undated", so I'm interested to know if the 1925 date appeared anywhere else besides the Standard Axe List (because that list might have been the most current one from some years back).

Some photos found online, from the first few pages of Catalog 30 (with no dates listed):

Steve -

Is it possible then, that similar to the TT gardening book I showed - that we could have a case of 2 dates used - 1925 refers to when that particular axe list was last used/updated etc, and then the actual year of publication of that work, being 1930 or then after? I think that very well might be whats going on here. We have to get our hands on that catalog.

Steve Tall · Dec 8, 2015

Operator1975 said:
Steve -

Is it possible then, that similar to the TT gardening book I showed - that we could have a case of 2 dates used - 1925 refers to when that particular axe list was last used/updated etc, and then the actual year of publication of that work, being 1930 or then after? I think that very well might be whats going on here. We have to get our hands on that catalog.

That's what I'm thinking, too.

Old Axeman · Dec 9, 2015

Operator, sorry but I plan to hold onto my catalogs until my widow (no time soon I hope) puts them on ebay like some of my axes were sold a couple of years ago. I looked at every page of the Catalog 30 again and the only date is 1925 on page 50. I can copy some pages for you and send them if you like.

Operator1975 · Dec 9, 2015

Old Axeman said:
Operator, sorry but I plan to hold onto my catalogs until my widow (no time soon I hope) puts them on ebay like some of my axes were sold a couple of years ago. I looked at every page of the Catalog 30 again and the only date is 1925 on page 50. I can copy some pages for you and send them if you like.

Perfectly understood. Weird that there would be no date on or in the catalog anywhere, but interesting at the same time.

If we can work it out so I can see them somehow, that would be great, not exactly sure on how to go about it though. Let me know what works for you, and I will do my best to make it happen.

Thanks!!!

Old Axeman · Dec 9, 2015

I have a lot of catalogs that the catalog number does not match the date. Do you think that maybe their first catalog was in 1895 which would make Catalog 30 issued in 1925? What if you sent me your mailing info by PM and I copy a few pages and send them to you? I have never done the PM thing, but maybe I can figure it out!

Square_peg · Dec 9, 2015

Old Axeman, You might be able to take some high res photos of the catalog pages and just post those. Or a local copy center can scan them and send you home with digital copies. A few of us here might be willing to chip in to cover the cost of that service.

Once it's digitized you could email it to me and I would host the images on my website for all here to access.

Operator1975 · Dec 9, 2015

Old Axeman said:
I have a lot of catalogs that the catalog number does not match the date. Do you think that maybe their first catalog was in 1895 which would make Catalog 30 issued in 1925? What if you sent me your mailing info by PM and I copy a few pages and send them to you? I have never done the PM thing, but maybe I can figure it out!

I'll pm you, you can send them to me if that's ok with you. I'll pay for shipping. Thanks!!!

Old Axeman · Dec 11, 2015

Operator,
I think years ago I made a loaner copy of the catalog. We have moved and I am still going through boxes of books, catalogs and tools. It will take at least until after the holidays to find it if I didnt down size it in the move. I will let you know. I have not been able to figure out if you PM me yet.

300Six · Dec 11, 2015

Old Axeman said:
There is no mistake/ typo in figure 9 on page 5 of "an ax to grind" On the top of page 50 of catalog 30 which is shown it has "1925 REVISED STANDARD AXE LIST". Page 51 has the standard pattern chart shown in figure 9. The cover shows this to be catalog 30, but it is dated inside as 1925. This comes direct from an original master catalog I got , along with a lot of other tool catalogs, from a number of very old hardware stores and lumber yards some of who had been in the same locations since the late 19c. This was in the later 1960s and 70s. They were glad for me to clean out their old files. I really miss the days before Home Depot, Lowes, and Internet shopping. Sorry, I can not show you a picture of the pages mentioned. I dont have those computer skills and would rather spend my time wood working than learning more about the computer. Bernie W.

Thank you Bernie for some reaffirmation of why I continue to follow this forum despite the prevalence of 'flash in the pan' Internet 'know it alls' that try to dominate any of the facts and advice.

quinton · Dec 11, 2015

Damn internets!

rjdankert · Dec 12, 2015

quinton said:
Damn internets!

Yeah, damn internets!

gben · Dec 12, 2015

300Six said:
Thank you Bernie for some reaffirmation of why I continue to follow this forum despite the prevalence of 'flash in the pan' Internet 'know it alls' that try to dominate any of the facts and advice.

But....he did not do anything except for make a lot of noise about nothing. All Steve Tall meant to say was that the page marked 1925 was used in a catalog later than 1925, which is the most common-sense and likely scenario as Operator75 and myself agree.

Lots of people have old axes and old literature laying around, but along with them you need certain knowledge and talent to interpret them, and that is what is rare. Steve Tall has the best ability on this forum to do just that, he digs up old information and interprets it very, very well.

The internet, an axe or anything can be useful if it is left in the hands of someone with brains.

300Six · Dec 12, 2015

gben said:
But....he did not do anything except for make a lot of noise about nothing. All Steve Tall meant to say was that the page marked 1925 was used in a catalog later than 1925, which is the most common-sense and likely scenario as Operator75 and myself agree.

Lots of people have old axes and old literature laying around, but along with them you need certain knowledge and talent to interpret them, and that is what is rare. Steve Tall has the best ability on this forum to do just that, he digs up old information and interprets it very, very well.

The internet, an axe or anything can be useful if it is left in the hands of someone with brains.

Hey, I most certainly am not disparaging of the uncanny ability of Steve Tall in his Internet sleuthing, but rather the 'presto' attitude of folks that take up hobbies or interests in something and thanks to superficial online surfing believe they have become world authorities within a couple of hours. Old Axeman has some old and original catalogues, and has used them to effect (how many of us can say that?) and now it's just a question of being able to share the information. For that the Internet and forums such as this have become revolutionary.

Operator1975 · Dec 12, 2015

300Six said:
Thank you Bernie for some reaffirmation of why I continue to follow this forum despite the prevalence of 'flash in the pan' Internet 'know it alls' that try to dominate any of the facts and advice.

300Six said:
Hey, I most certainly am not disparaging of the uncanny ability of Steve Tall in his Internet sleuthing, but rather the 'presto' attitude of folks that take up hobbies or interests in something and thanks to superficial online surfing believe they have become world authorities within a couple of hours. Old Axeman has some old and original catalogues, and has used them to effect (how many of us can say that?) and now it's just a question of being able to share the information. For that the Internet and forums such as this have become revolutionary.

Just who exactly are you talking about?

quinton · Dec 13, 2015

Operator1975 said:
Just who exactly are you talking about?

Me.

gben · Dec 19, 2015

300Six said:
Hey, I most certainly am not disparaging of the uncanny ability of Steve Tall in his Internet sleuthing, but rather the 'presto' attitude of folks that take up hobbies or interests in something and thanks to superficial online surfing believe they have become world authorities within a couple of hours. Old Axeman has some old and original catalogues, and has used them to effect (how many of us can say that?) and now it's just a question of being able to share the information. For that the Internet and forums such as this have become revolutionary.

I have lots of old catalogs laying around here, but having old catalogs does not make anyone an expert or any better than anyone using Google, any more than putting a book on brain-surgery into Donald Trump's hand is going to guarantee he can do brain surgery. Despite there being information all over the place, this forum and most others are full of mostly misinformation because for many people talking about something period is more important than knowing what you are talking about.

If someone puts up something that is factual and true that is my hero, likewise if someone puts their ego ahead of those things or is simply ignorant, I don't care if they have been chopping wood for 50 years, they don't deserve to spread misinformation just because they or old or talk louder than anyone else. If you are going to start defending misinformation just so nobody gets their feelings hurt, then you may as well take this website down because it will become a liability and the general public will be better off without it as a distraction for sure.