What angle to sharpen to

Roikyou

Roikyou

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Sep 21, 2017
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Wanted the forum's opinion. I have four knives right now, Kershaw leak that I found on the side of the road and three CRK, large, small and small Insingo. For slicing, really like the Kershaw and the Insingo. The Kershaw is sharpened at 17 degrees, pretty much as low as the KME will go, I'm fine with that, it's one heck of a slicer. The next best slicer is the Insingo at 18 degrees, amazing little knife. The standard hallow grind on the small Inkosi is at 23 degrees, not a very good slicer, cuts well but just kind of, eh. The large Inkosi is at 26 degrees, brand new, the slicing is on par or worse than the small Inkosi.

My question, thinking of bringing the large down to 22 to see if that improves the sharpening. The knives that get the most use will be the small but I want a good edge on the large one also. Not sure if it's just the blade on the Insingo that makes it so much better at cutting or the angle on the small and large that makes the slicing just kind of eh.

I'd love to sync them all together but 17 is a push on the large and small, the Insingo is only a degree, so not that big of a deal. But, if around 22 can make both the large and small a better slicer, I might reprofile both to that angle. So, looking for your thoughts on angles for the large and small.

Thanks
 
For my Sebenza (large, S30V), the stock factory edge's slicing really didn't impress me much, until I took it down to 30° inclusive (15°/side) or lower. I initially did the reprofile on a V-crock sharpener with diamond rods at the sharpener's 30° inclusive default setup, which produced a notable improvement. Since then, I've thinned the edge some more on diamond hones (freehand) to something lower than that; somewhere in the 25 < 30 range. So now, I'm finally pretty happy with how it cuts.

I have two small Sebenzas (also S30V), still with their untouched factory edges on them. At some point in the future, when I'm feeling sufficiently motivated, I'd like to take them down to similar geometry. I'm sure I'd carry & use them more if I did, and would likely love it. But, like the large one, I haven't felt much desire to use them for much (anything, actually) in the meantime, as the factory edges on them haven't really called out to me at all.

I'd say, take all of them as low as you can (assuming that's 17° on your KME, if that's the lowest setting). Unless you're doing some very hard, borderline-abusive cutting with them (hard chopping, prying, etc), you should have no worries at all in taking them down to 25-30° inclusive, at least. Most any steel will hold up pretty well in that range, assuming you aren't just beating it up in how you're using it.
 
If your large and small Insingo's have the harder heat treat the 35VN steel can handle 15 degrees per side or 30 degrees inclusive very well.
This is based on my own testing after sharpening as well as feedback from customers.
 
Sounds good, sounds like I've got some work to do, taking the large from 26 down to 17 is quite a jump. 23 to 17 won't be as bad and 18 to 17 I'll probably wait until it's ready for a touch up. Although, since the heel of the blade isn't even yet on the Insingo, I guess that's an excuse to try to even the heel out. The kershaw is pretty much good to do, even though it's a beater, nice to have something inexpensive just in case you need one.
 
if you are taking about bringing your edge down to 22 per side? or 22 inclusive? ... I would take it to at least 17 perside 34 inclusive or even 15 per side 30 inclusive ...

I had Josh at Razors Edge thin the edge of an Inkosi down to 15 degrees 30 inclusive and it performs great ... I have sharpened my carry Sebenza down to 17 per side 34 inclusive and it performs great ... I may think about taking it to 15 after trying out Josh's edge but ...

I left mine at 17 because I use it for work and it performs great but leaves just a bit stouter edge ... so yes you can sharpen at a lower angle and be good.
 
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IMO/Experience CRKs are never really good slicers; but bringing the angle down will definitely help a lot; with the rather soft S30V I'd go 17-20; If they're S35VN you can go lower, I usually go for 15dps, but have taken it to 9dps for shit and giggles once and hadn't had it chip on me.
 
It's S35VN, KME hits the limit of 17 degree's on a side, the length of blade and position may get it down to 16 but most likely not. I'm okay with 17. The small Inkosi Insingo is a great slicer as far as fine cuts, the kershaw is such a thing blade at 17 degree's, it does a real fine cut also. That's why I was kind of curious what the other shallow grind small and full size would be like at something lower than 23 degrees. I'm not expecting super fine cut with the large but I would think the other small would be on par with the Insingo but they are two different grinds.
 
When I had a KME, I flipped the arm holding fixture around, and was able to get 15DPS on my knives. Poor design, 15DPS is where a knife should start at, in my opinion.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
I'd say, take all of them as low as you can (assuming that's 17° on your KME, if that's the lowest setting). Unless you're doing some very hard, borderline-abusive cutting with them (hard chopping, prying, etc), you should have no worries at all in taking them down to 25-30° inclusive, at least. Most any steel will hold up pretty well in that range, assuming you aren't just beating it up in how you're using it.
Click to expand...

Agree with this, it's totally worth taking your edges down to 17 dps if KME limits you to that, would give a noticeable improvement in slicing performance. If you can find a way either by hacking your KME as D Danketch did, or by using a different guided system or even freehand so that you can go even lower, I would try running a couple of these folders in the range of 12 to 15 dps and see how they do. Even an inexpensive Sharpmaker would enable you to bring it down to 15 dps. I've converted most of my knives to this lower secondary edge angle range, except a handful of large fixed blade knives that I've kept at 20 dps, or some are full blade convex for chopping performance. If this 12-15 dps idea seems a little extreme, note that Buck knives is recommending 13 to 16 dps edges here as a general guidance for all types of knife sharpening. David brought this up in a thread the other day that Buck is basing this on extensive edge durability testing (CATRA). And now they are recommending it to all Buck knife owners. From my own usage, I think they are on track with this guidance, the lower edge angles can still give you a sufficiently durable edge for ordinary knife tasks, and give SO much better slicing performance.
 
Danketch said:
When I had a KME, I flipped the arm holding fixture around, and was able to get 15DPS on my knives. Poor design, 15DPS is where a knife should start at, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

So instead of the guide rod being at the top, you flipped it, so the guide is at the bottom, still slides but upside down. Sound about right?
 
No, arm still functions same orientation. I don't have one anymore, so I can't picture it, but if you search on here, or look at the thing, you should be able to figure it out.
 
Found the video, thanks everyone. So when you moved on from kme, did you go free hand or wicked edge?
 
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Video was what I was describing. I freehand all my convex grinds, and use Wicked Edge, WorkSharp with BGA, and reg. belt sander for all the rest now. Using the Wicked Edge was sharpest and fastest I've ever gotten/reprofiled any sabre/V-ground edge, with just reg. package. Did need to get the low angle adapter for mine.
 
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