What are some traditional Irish Knives

Tyler.Bachman

Tyler.Bachman

Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
396
I'm only second generation American my grandfather was German and grandmother on my father side was Irish. And my mother parents were Italian. I wanted to know what my great grandfather a potatoes and fisherman what would he have in his pocket.


Tyler
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I hope you get some replies on this as I am very interested to learn.

You might ping Jack Black.
 
Very interested to hear. I'm guessing some type of single blade jack, or possibly a wharncliff/sheepsfoot style blade. I have read that the sheepsfoot style was used aboard ships (fishing and navy) of many western European countries, to prevent sailors from stabbing each other, not preventing injury from duties onboard.

My mothers father was Irish/Blackfoot/Cherokee/Crow. I would like to think that my mothers mother's family, who were Scotch-Irish/Scottish/Austrian/Czech, would have some sgian dubh users in the family, and that maybe the sgian dubh or larger dirk made it's way to Ireland. Maybe by your great grandfathers era, the UK had made life pretty miserable in northern Ireland, possibly Ireland.

I never met my grandfather, he died when my mom was 10, but he was very passionate about Ireland and the old songs etc.
 
My Grandfather was born in Ireland in the late 19th century. He carried a Victorinox scout pattern at the time of his death in the 1960s.
 
I would think that because of the close proximity of England, and the 400 year domination under English rule, that the bulk of the cutlery available in Ireland was from Sheffield.

After the mid 20th century it probably turned more international like the rest of the world, with products from Asia and the ever present Swiss Army Knife that was popular all over the globe.
 
jackknife said:
I would think that because of the close proximity of England, and the 400 year domination under English rule, that the bulk of the cutlery available in Ireland was from Sheffield.

After the mid 20th century it probably turned more international like the rest of the world, with products from Asia and the ever present Swiss Army Knife that was popular all over the globe.
Click to expand...

I as thinking along pattern like a Barlow or sodbuster


Tyler
 
A 2 blade congress jack (ie both blades pivot on the same end of the knife)is often referred to as an "Irish jack", however, I doubt that has anything to do with the pattern originating in Ireland or being associated with Ireland? The Blade Forums 2013 traditional forum knife is an example of this knife.
Dan
 
Sorry. Had to be done. It was driving me nuts.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Very interested to hear. I'm guessing some type of single blade jack, or possibly a wharncliff/sheepsfoot style blade. I have read that the sheepsfoot style was used aboard ships (fishing and navy) of many western European countries, to prevent sailors from stabbing each other, not preventing injury from duties onboard.

My mothers father was Irish/Blackfoot/Cherokee/Crow. I would like to think that my mothers mother's family, who were Scotch-Irish/Scottish/Austrian/Czech, would have some sgian dubh users in the family, and that maybe the sgian dubh or larger dirk made it's way to Ireland. Maybe by your great grandfathers era, the UK had made life pretty miserable in northern Ireland, possibly Ireland.

I never met my grandfather, he died when my mom was 10, but he was very passionate about Ireland and the old songs etc.
Click to expand...

From what my grandmother tells me my grandfather hated the British so I doubt a Sheffield knife


Tyler
 
Imperial made blades in Ireland. In regard to what a farmer or fisherman would have used, I would imagine it would be any sort of standard utility knife. Pocket knives described in old British stories like Sherlock Holmes tend to appear like old iterations of Swiss Army knives. I would imagine these would be available in Ireland.

Finally, I have a degree in history and a lot of my research focused on the "troubles" as it's been dubbed in Irish history. This would be the era from the late 19th century into the early-mid 20th century. The Catholics and Republicans in Ireland had very close ties to the US in the early 20th century and close ties to France in the late 19th century. So much of what was imported into the country was what could be brought by ship from France and the US. So I would imagine there were quite a lot of French and US brands in Ireland throughout that time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I seriously doubt my grandfather would ever put an English or Scottish knife in his pocket. They were the oppressors. The English put a price on my Uncle's head, luckily he escaped to America and retutned at the end of the Troubles.
 
I don't know how recent the attitude is but I have the impression Ireland is even more anti knife than England. The CEO of Imperial/Schrade once told me they had all manner of legal problems just making those inexpensive Imperial slip-joints there for export. It was like they were making machineguns for international arms dealers or something.
 
The offensive weapons act of 1990 in Ireland takes in most anything with a blade.
All of this imbecility is set forth in the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990:

"(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place."

By Irish law since 1990, a Victorinox classic is illegal to carry.

That said, in the "old days" in Ireland it was just as common for any Irishman on the street to have a pocket knife on him as here in the U.S.. But times change, and few Americans don't carry a knife on a daily basis anymore.

I think even through the irish don't have a great love of the English, they were not too proud to make use of well made English products if it served their need. In addition to the pocket knives of Sheffield, the Enfield rifles and Webley revolvers were prized by the I.R.A. in the fight for liberation. The arms used after the failed 1916 rebellion were primarily English Army weapons for the simple fact that they were easy to obtain, and they worked well.

My own grandfather was VERY anti English, but one of his prized possessions was an English sailors knife that was a gift from his wife when they were both young and still in Ireland. He carried that knife until grandmother gave him a new Hen and Rooster stockman when they lived on Maryland's Eastern shore. Granddad loved that knife, even though it was made by "the enemy."
 
Carl, I think the Irish law is similar to other European countries like Italy and based on what I've heard from folks posting from there, it's overstating it to say that a Classic is illegal. In practice, I think it is more accurate to say that the law puts discretion in the hands of the the LEO.

I think many towns and cities effectively do the same thing with ridiculously low speed limits of, say 25 or 35 mph on residential roads. They're routinely ignored and only selectively enforced at the discretion of the LEO.
 
pinnah said:
Carl, I think the Irish law is similar to other European countries like Italy and based on what I've heard from folks posting from there, it's overstating it to say that a Classic is illegal. In practice, I think it is more accurate to say that the law puts discretion in the hands of the the LEO.

I think many towns and cities effectively do the same thing with ridiculously low speed limits of, say 25 or 35 mph on residential roads. They're routinely ignored and only selectively enforced at the discretion of the LEO.
Click to expand...

Well Dave, I don't know what English was like when you were in school, but the word "any" is pretty clear and leaves very little leeway. Accoridng to Irish law, a Vic classic has a blade. Irish law bans the carry of anything that has a blade, so technically a classic having said blade is against said Irish law. Irish law does not say any blade except a 1 one inch blade, or anything but a Vic classic blade. It says any. Now the constable may have a bit of un-official leeway to look the other way, but it's clear that if for some reason he found you with a classic, he's very well within his rights to haul you in. And it's up to you to prove your innocence. That's a heck of lot more draconian that English law where you can have up to a 3 inch bladed slip joint.

If I'm visiting Ireland, and they tell me I can't have anything with a blade on it, I'm taking them at their word. Beats ruining a vacation by trying to be the nail standing up. According to the dictionary I'm looking at, any is pretty clear.

Maybe it means something different in Chinese, Swahili, or Vulcan, but I speak English. So do the Irish, sort of.
 
There’s a senile old woman who lives down my street who hates Pakistanis – all Pakistanis – whether or not her racist bigotry extends to inanimate objects or not, I don’t know, but of course all her neighbours (including at least four Irishmen) regard her views as repugnant, and obviously ignorant. As for the Irish and English, we share a huge amount of common heritage, and in my experience (which is pretty extensive) even the most ardent Irish Republican is fully able to distinguish between the English or British, and the British Government/Army. As for the Irish being anti-English, I’ve spent a lot of time in Ireland, and have travelled extensively there, and never experienced the slightest bit of resentment, not in the pubs of West Belfast, the Bogside of Derry, nor the housing estates of Dublin. Perhaps I wouldn’t fare so well in the “Irish” pubs of Boston, Massachusetts, for example, but maybe that’s something that we can leave for now. Since this is not the political forum, perhaps we could corral the blatantly political discussion before the windows of a few glass houses get broken eh? Please tread carefully (and by all means carry a big shillelagh). My grandfather hated bananas, and since there are no bananas reading this, I hope that I am not causing offence to anyone in telling you that. As for my neighbour Mrs Singh, I can only apologise for telling you of her views, which I wholeheartedly condemn as racist and ignorant.

My great-grandfather was a Sheffield cutler, and one of many Irishmen (I have Irish relatives on both sides of my family) in a city with a large Irish community (Eamon de Valera even stayed in the town while on the run after his escape from Lincoln prison), an unshakeable radicalism, and which, historically, supported both French, American and Irish Republicanism, as well as being anti-slavery. There were also cutlery firms in the city which were owned by Irishmen, and Ireland was an important export market (so some Irishmen bought the stuff, irrespective of their views on the British occupation/Crown rule – even the Irish Republican Army carried British-made guns).

Cutlery production in Ireland has always been limited, with just a few companies ever having existed. Industrialisation came late to most of Ireland, but the town of Newbridge in County Kildare grew up around the large cavalry barracks established there in 1815, where one of the roads was even called Cutlery Road. Linishing skills in particular were developed, and Newbridge was a thriving Irish business town in the 19th century. According to the town’s online history, Newbridge continued to prosper until May 1922, when the British Army were withdrawn after the establishment of the Irish Free State. Aware of the problem, the Irish Free State encouraged the establishment of new manufacturing enterprises, and invited over a group of Sheffield cutlers to help set up a cutlery works. Originally this was going to be in Tralee, but Newbridge was settled on following the intervention of the leader of the Labour Party, Mr William Norton. A loan of £40,000 from the Industrial Credit Company helped to secure the start-up of the Newbridge Cutlery Company, the main aim of which was to produce silver-plated (EPNS) knives and forks for the Irish market. Mr J W Haigh was appointed managing director and came over from Sheffield with six Sheffield cutlers to train local workers. Eventually, around 30 Sheffield cutlers were involved in the project, with at least one staying on and settling in Newbridge. Having been established in 1935, by 1939 Newbridge Cutlery Company was working to full capacity, having cornered the major share of the Irish cutlery market.

In 1947, Newbridge Cutlery Company took a 25% share of a nearby file and saw manufacturer, and later purchased a cutlery factory in Enniscorthy, County Wexford, as well as other investments in England, changing its name to Newbridge Holdings. In more recent years, the Sheffield cutlery company Viners established a branch in Ireland. There is no record of these companies producing pocket cutlery.

Jowika - full name Jowika Stahwlarenfabrik Eugen Weber & Altenbach KG – was a German company, which traced its history back to 1928, when they were called Kleinwafers. The company specialised in inexpensive pocket cutlery aimed at the low-end of the market, and like other companies, such as Richards of Sheffield, used Lohr and Stiehl’s patented shell-handled designs. Jowika opened a factory in Listowel, County Kerry, in 1960. This was subsequently acquired by Imperial Schrade in 1978.

Today, there are a few Irish custom makers, the only one of which I know personally being Rory O’Conner.

Irish Knife law is indeed very stringent, but I’ve not had any problems carrying a knife there, and many of my Irish friends carry a knife. They live in rural areas, and perhaps it is different there than it might be in Dublin for instance. As I understand it, under Irish law, if challenged, you have to be able to justify why you are carrying a knife, either for work or recreational purposes (useful article here: http://www.bushcraft.ie/index.php/articles/58-knives-and-the-law). Certainly though, the law must have drastically affected knife sales in Ireland (the same can be said of Europe as a whole I think).

Since there are no pics in this thread, I thought I’d add these. I assume this knife was made for sale in Ireland. It was made in Sheffield.





 
I'm amazed this thread is still here. Prejudice is no less potent because it comes second hand.

Jack, thanks for that history - I knew very little of the cutlery industry in Ireland and appreciate the research you must have done to make that excellent post.


- Paul
 
pmew said:
I'm amazed this thread is still here. Prejudice is no less potent because it comes second hand.

Jack, thanks for that history - I knew very little of the cutlery industry in Ireland and appreciate the research you must have done to make that excellent post.
Click to expand...

Thank you Paul, after reading some of the comments here, I was reluctant to post in this thread at all, it certainly soured my weekend. I share your amazement that it is still here :thumbup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top