What do you choose? Is it 58/59 HRC super powder metal (m390, elmax MagnaCut, etc.) or 62/63 HRC D2, Sleipner or similar steel?

High Speed, Low Drag, 67 HRC, Max Cement...the next best thing to obsidian. 😜

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(I just discovered the whole "super steels" rabbit hole, had no idea until about a month ago that it even was a thing ... yep, I lead a sheltered life!)
 
I'll take harder every time. D2 is not too bad with stains, but as others have said, it is usually not hardened to that degree.

D2 is a good way to keep to a low budget and have decent hardness if we're willing to give up a bit in other criteria.

Here's a good reference with typical edge retention ratings:

(5/10) Magnacut: https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#CPM-MagnaCut

(7/10) M390: https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#M390

(6/10) Elmax: https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#Elmax

(5/10) D2: https://www.bladehq.com/blog/knife-steel-guide/#D2


We can see that M390 has the best edge retention, so that's what I'd take. I value that over the other three criteria, at least in a folder. Even if we consider corrosion resistance, M390 stomps D2.
 
DeadboxHero said:
If you don't sharpen or use your knife, I suppose nothing matters.


There's a lot of nuances to navigate.

Just because you have higher HRC doesn't mean it's going to be inherently badass.

That doesn't mean hardness needs to be bottomed out.

So that's not quite the black and white answer that new guys want to hear.

Probably one of the most difficult things to comprehend for normies is that you can have 1095 at 65 HRC and 15V at 60 HRC.

And if the primary method of dulling is purely from cutting them the 15V will cut longer despite the lower hardness.

Also hardness HRC is not universal.

HRC is the sum of the microstructure but not a clear picture of the actual constituents themselves making up that hardness, just like how body weight doesn't reflect body composition.

Let's say theoretically we take 1095 hardened at 1600f from a coarsely spherodizied condition, skip the cryo and under temper BOOM, 65 HRC.

Versus a finely spherodizied, lower austenitized, fast quenched and cryo'd 1095, also 65 HRC and at the same hardeness there is a significant difference in strength and stability even though both conditions are at 65.

Meanwhile, you would have normies screaming that their 1095 is 65 HRC so it's good to go but that's not telling you the full story.

Microstructure is King.
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At the end of the day, you still haven't given us an answer. Is it a heat treated sleipner (62hrc) that it should be or is it a powdered metal lower than recommended (58 hrc😁😁). Give us an answer. 😂
 
I would never buy a "Super Steel" for a pocket knife at such a low hardness. For this kind of use, I will always prefer a high quality steel at a high hardness. 1095 at 65HRC or M2 at 65-66 will blow your mind. Of course, so will K390, CPM 10V, Maxamet, etc.

Any knife with a sub-optimal heat treat I would get rid of, including a Sebenza or any other brand.
 
whereismyknife said:
To keep all variables constant, let's talk about a specific model and let's call it crk sebenza. What would you prefer, a 58/59 hrc super steel or a 62/63 HRC D2/sleipner? I would love to know your thoughts.
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so.... I'm wondering why false / incorrect hrc is part of this equation?

a super steel like magnacut requires a 62 ish to properly be zoned in...
other super steels require an even higher hrc
running a super steel at lower hrc kind of defeats the purpose

and yeah, d2 at those levels is just chippy, you can look at the graphs ... or see the test results from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charpy_impact_test

Larrin Larrin has a great website and write ups on this forum which get into the details
enjoy
 
dirc said:
Larrin Larrin has a great website and write ups on this forum which get into the details
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Larin has a top notch site. You can learn a lot from there.

I also found some other sites which gives you insight what's going on when sharpening blades.
Among other things you can see super steels behave differently then plain carbon steels when sharpening. You can also see the difference on the edge if using traditional stones compare to diamond stones. Sharpening is a mixture of abrasive and adhesive wear and there is also elastic and plastic deformation and some flow of material at the edge.

I have a feeling most members of this forum just stick to what they were doing last 30 or 40 years with their carbon knives and they don't want to accept some new knowledge.
But this forum is not suppose to be technical but more on the fun side like 'show me beer and knife photos' and similar.
 
Out of the given choices, I'd take the high hardness sleipner. I don't have a knife in that steel, but it's supposed to be tougher than D2, which I expect to be quite chippy at 63hrc.
For me having a low hardness super steel kinda defeats the purpose. It's like putting a 60 horsepower engine into a Porsche 911.
 
dirc said:
so.... I'm wondering why false / incorrect hrc is part of this equation?

a super steel like magnacut requires a 62 ish to properly be zoned in...
other super steels require an even higher hrc
running a super steel at lower hrc kind of defeats the purpose

and yeah, d2 at those levels is just chippy, you can look at the graphs ... or see the test results from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charpy_impact_test

Larrin Larrin has a great website and write ups on this forum which get into the details
enjoy
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All you have to do is read the thread and you'll see why false/incorrect hrc part of the equation. There are already companies that consciously produce such hardness. Therefore, you should ask these companies this question, not me.
This has already been said about D2, everyone agrees on it and the alternative steel is written there.
 
whereismyknife said:
All you have to do is read the thread and you'll see why false/incorrect hrc part of the equation. There are already companies that consciously produce such hardness. Therefore, you should ask these companies this question, not me.
This has already been said about D2, everyone agrees on it and the alternative steel is written there.
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you should have explained that a bit more.... I would choose a 3rd option: buy from a maker that uses the correct hrc for the steel ;)
they really do exist, so picking from 2 bad scenarios is not required :D
 
dirc said:
you should have explained that a bit more.... I would choose a 3rd option: buy from a maker that uses the correct hrc for the steel ;)
they really do exist, so picking from 2 bad scenarios is not required :D
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My friend. What you mentioned is of course the smartest thing. But I wonder whether what is important for users is just having that steel or performance. So in any case there is a third option stating the obvious doesn't help the situation, does it? What I'm trying to learn here is the choice between two situations and the reasons for this choice. Suppose that a model you like very much is in stock, the manufacturer has produced it from super steel, but its hardness is lower than it should be. It was also produced by sleipner (Or a similar quality steel k340 for example) and made to the required hardness and it's more affordable (Because this steel is relatively cheap). Everyone knows there is a third option. There are even fourth, fifth and too many options to list here.I don't think anyone will be left in such a dilemma anyway. The joy of speculating is ignoring that options anyway.
 
whereismyknife said:
My friend. What you mentioned is of course the smartest thing. But I wonder whether what is important for users is just having that steel or performance. So in any case there is a third option stating the obvious doesn't help the situation, does it? What I'm trying to learn here is the choice between two situations and the reasons for this choice. Suppose that a model you like very much is in stock, the manufacturer has produced it from super steel, but its hardness is lower than it should be. It was also produced by sleipner (Or a similar quality steel k340 for example) and made to the required hardness and it's more affordable (Because this steel is relatively cheap). Everyone knows there is a third option. There are even fourth, fifth and too many options to list here.I don't think anyone will be left in such a dilemma anyway. The joy of speculating is ignoring that options anyway.
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In regards to the question you just answered, I was about to say…
What if your favorite knife or maker was supposedly doing heat treats on the “lower” side?
Is that enough to over look a design that is otherwise perfect in your opinion?
Many companies and especially smaller makers do not offer all of their models in multiple different steels.
🤔
 
TheOne45 said:
This article is also very interesting. It shows how the edge of the knife made of S100V steel (lots of carbides) looks like after sharpening different ways:
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↑ That is one fantastic website.

It tells us HOW to sharpen a given steel to get the best results. In this case, using diamond hones from a WickedEdge sharpener gave inferior results to a simple Sharpmaker, because the diamonds damaged the steel at the edge and the ceramic was just that bit softer to let things come out right.

I don't have any knives in S110v, so I'm looking into his articles on K390 and Maxamet now.
 
tony281sc2 said:
In regards to the question you just answered, I was about to say…
What if your favorite knife or maker was supposedly doing heat treats on the “lower” side?
Is that enough to over look a design that is otherwise perfect in your opinion?
Many companies and especially smaller makers do not offer all of their models in multiple different steels.
🤔
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This is a great question. I have no answer. I don't know what I would do in such a situation. I guess I would look at the price. If it's cheap enough I can ignore it but personally, I would expect a company that charges me a lot of money for using m390 to process this steel in a way that meets its optimum requirements. Would you buy a knife that hasn't even been heat treated just because it looks so nice?
 
Smaug said:
I don't have any knives in S110v, so I'm looking into his articles on K390 and Maxamet now.
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Smaug,
I'm very glad you like that site.
I would say what is written in s110v article apply for all steels with carbides.
I hope you will also check other articles. They are very informative.
Below each article are also questions and answers. A lot of additional info.
 
whereismyknife said:
Would you buy a knife that hasn't even been heat treated just because it looks so nice?
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hell no lol if there is a noticeable difference between a few points imagine the difference if it was a few dozen points less than normal.
I have knives I don’t use, but I might someday. I just like keeping them nice for now. None of them are “art knives” or whatever they are called. They were meant to be used
 
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