What exactly is Talonite?
- Thread starter Spark
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1998
- Messages
- 427
Well as far as i can figure out with my research, Talonite is a Cobalt alloy consisting of only 3% Iron.
While asking questions I asked if Talonite was any relation to Stellite, I was told that the alloys were the same but the talonite was cold rolled and age hardened.
I have worked in the Stellite stuff before, back when you used to have to cut down turbine blades to get the stuff, or know somebody that builds oil drilling platforms in the oceans..
Stellite and Talonite, are hard facing alloys, used in circumstances where high heat and material stability are a key factor..
This stuff is hard, there is no heat treatment, it is just grind and go sorta material. Off hand I dont know about hardnes, but the peices I have worked before in the Stellite have been of average to low edge holding ability, some things it could cut all day, others just a couple of times.
On the good side, being only 3% Iron, this stuff will not rust, thats a good reason to build oil platform parts out of it. It also has no breakdown of hadness when heated, thus the use for turbine blades, so if you intend to abuse a blade, and you want something that wont rust and you can stir the ashes in the campfire with it, this is your stuff..
Hope I could help,I really hope this stuff doesnt come back into style, Its a pain to grind and really expensive..
Alan Folts
While asking questions I asked if Talonite was any relation to Stellite, I was told that the alloys were the same but the talonite was cold rolled and age hardened.
I have worked in the Stellite stuff before, back when you used to have to cut down turbine blades to get the stuff, or know somebody that builds oil drilling platforms in the oceans..
Stellite and Talonite, are hard facing alloys, used in circumstances where high heat and material stability are a key factor..
This stuff is hard, there is no heat treatment, it is just grind and go sorta material. Off hand I dont know about hardnes, but the peices I have worked before in the Stellite have been of average to low edge holding ability, some things it could cut all day, others just a couple of times.
On the good side, being only 3% Iron, this stuff will not rust, thats a good reason to build oil platform parts out of it. It also has no breakdown of hadness when heated, thus the use for turbine blades, so if you intend to abuse a blade, and you want something that wont rust and you can stir the ashes in the campfire with it, this is your stuff..
Hope I could help,I really hope this stuff doesnt come back into style, Its a pain to grind and really expensive..
Alan Folts
Spark,
Kit Carson's favorite knife is made of stellite 6K which is very similar to talonite and cobalt 6H. Talonite appears to have a distinct advantage in edge retention due to the hot rolling and age hardening processing. For a small to mid size tactical knife this stuff ought to be nearly indestructable as well as having non-magnetic and non-corrosive characteristics.
As previously stated I've contacted Trace Rinaldi to make up one of his Spook models and Rob Siminoch for his Cetan in talonite. These should prove to be exceptional blades.
After Tom Walz of Cardide Processors announced this stuff there apparently was a mad dash to get samples which turned out to be free. Unfortunately the $500 worth that had been budgeted went out the door very fast. Remaining samples are available at a slight discount but suffice it to say that this stuff costs about ten times what ATS-34 goes for!!! And it'll probably eat up a factor more in grinding belts too. The only saving grace is that it is grind and polish...no heat treating required for the knifemaker.
-=[Bob]=-
This is off the manufacturer's web site:
http://www.carbideprocessors.com
Material Description
New Cobalt Chromium alloy this alloy is UNS R3006 but it has been hot worked and age
hardened to give superior performance. Talonite has outlasted other alloys by 35% in a current test of wear on scraper blades in a cereal mill.
Talonite it the same composition as alloy 6BH, except the material is hot rolled and then age hardened. The direct age hardening after hot rolling provides the maximum hardness and wear resistance, the advantages this creates are increased wear life, retained edge characteristics, and
increased hardness. These properties are in addition to the excellent galling and seizing resistance of the regular Cobalt 6BH.
Element %
Co
balance
Ni 3 max
Si 2 max
Fe 3 max
Mn 2 max
Cr 28 32
Mo 1.50 max
W 3.5 - 5.5
C .9 - 1.4
Talonite specifications:
Density .303 pounds per cubic inch
Hardness Rockwell C 42 48
Young's Modulus 30 x 106
Thermal conductivity 103 (BTU - in./sq.ft. - hr. - deg. F)
Mean thermal expansion coefficient 7.7 (212º F) - 8.6 (1832º F
Ultimate tensile 195,000
Yield @ .2% offset 121,000
Elongation percentage 4.5
Specific heat @ 72°F
0.101 Btu/lb/Deg. F
Electrical resistivity (68F) 546 Ohms / cir. Mill ft.
Annealing temperature 2250° F
Melting point 2650° F
Working Talonite
Talonite is generally machined with tungsten -carbide tooling, and will produce a finish of about 200 - 300 RMS. Carbide inserts are used with a 5-degree (0.9 rad.) negative tool holder and a 30-degree (0.52 rad.) lead angle. Tools for facing or boring are essentially the same except for greater clearances where needed. For best results in drilling, the drill web should be kept thin.
Screw machine length, carbide tipped drills should used. In reaming, a 45-degree (0.79 rad.) cutting lead angle should be used. High-speed taps are not recommended for Talonite but threads can be produced by EDM techniques. For better surface finish this alloy should be ground.
We can supply parts water jet cut. Because the material is tempered, laser cutting is not recommended.
The material is nonmagnetic. Surface grinding will work well with this alloy in a jig that is magnetic if the jig holds the Talonite
Talonite is ground to obtain close tolerances with excellent surface finish properties. Do not quench dry ground material, as it may cause surface imperfections. The only caution is to avoid great amounts of heat for extended periods of time. The example given is continuous use to 2,000ºF.
-=[Bob]=-
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 08 May 1999).]
Kit Carson's favorite knife is made of stellite 6K which is very similar to talonite and cobalt 6H. Talonite appears to have a distinct advantage in edge retention due to the hot rolling and age hardening processing. For a small to mid size tactical knife this stuff ought to be nearly indestructable as well as having non-magnetic and non-corrosive characteristics.
As previously stated I've contacted Trace Rinaldi to make up one of his Spook models and Rob Siminoch for his Cetan in talonite. These should prove to be exceptional blades.
After Tom Walz of Cardide Processors announced this stuff there apparently was a mad dash to get samples which turned out to be free. Unfortunately the $500 worth that had been budgeted went out the door very fast. Remaining samples are available at a slight discount but suffice it to say that this stuff costs about ten times what ATS-34 goes for!!! And it'll probably eat up a factor more in grinding belts too. The only saving grace is that it is grind and polish...no heat treating required for the knifemaker.
-=[Bob]=-
This is off the manufacturer's web site:
http://www.carbideprocessors.com
Material Description
New Cobalt Chromium alloy this alloy is UNS R3006 but it has been hot worked and age
hardened to give superior performance. Talonite has outlasted other alloys by 35% in a current test of wear on scraper blades in a cereal mill.
Talonite it the same composition as alloy 6BH, except the material is hot rolled and then age hardened. The direct age hardening after hot rolling provides the maximum hardness and wear resistance, the advantages this creates are increased wear life, retained edge characteristics, and
increased hardness. These properties are in addition to the excellent galling and seizing resistance of the regular Cobalt 6BH.
Element %
Co
balance
Ni 3 max
Si 2 max
Fe 3 max
Mn 2 max
Cr 28 32
Mo 1.50 max
W 3.5 - 5.5
C .9 - 1.4
Talonite specifications:
Density .303 pounds per cubic inch
Hardness Rockwell C 42 48
Young's Modulus 30 x 106
Thermal conductivity 103 (BTU - in./sq.ft. - hr. - deg. F)
Mean thermal expansion coefficient 7.7 (212º F) - 8.6 (1832º F
Ultimate tensile 195,000
Yield @ .2% offset 121,000
Elongation percentage 4.5
Specific heat @ 72°F
0.101 Btu/lb/Deg. F
Electrical resistivity (68F) 546 Ohms / cir. Mill ft.
Annealing temperature 2250° F
Melting point 2650° F
Working Talonite
Talonite is generally machined with tungsten -carbide tooling, and will produce a finish of about 200 - 300 RMS. Carbide inserts are used with a 5-degree (0.9 rad.) negative tool holder and a 30-degree (0.52 rad.) lead angle. Tools for facing or boring are essentially the same except for greater clearances where needed. For best results in drilling, the drill web should be kept thin.
Screw machine length, carbide tipped drills should used. In reaming, a 45-degree (0.79 rad.) cutting lead angle should be used. High-speed taps are not recommended for Talonite but threads can be produced by EDM techniques. For better surface finish this alloy should be ground.
We can supply parts water jet cut. Because the material is tempered, laser cutting is not recommended.
The material is nonmagnetic. Surface grinding will work well with this alloy in a jig that is magnetic if the jig holds the Talonite
Talonite is ground to obtain close tolerances with excellent surface finish properties. Do not quench dry ground material, as it may cause surface imperfections. The only caution is to avoid great amounts of heat for extended periods of time. The example given is continuous use to 2,000ºF.
-=[Bob]=-
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 08 May 1999).]
- Joined
- Dec 14, 1998
- Messages
- 4,870
I was suppose to get a length from Dr Welch to grind into a hunter. Cant wait.. We always used round neg rake tools on the stuff after
resurfacing tools or navy pump sleeves with it. They used monel K500 aged hardened as a base for the sleeves (hard service) hehehe nasty stuff to.. Kit Carson makes some spook stuff from stellite and ti.. Nice stuff . expensive..
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 10-12-98).]
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 10-12-98).]
resurfacing tools or navy pump sleeves with it. They used monel K500 aged hardened as a base for the sleeves (hard service) hehehe nasty stuff to.. Kit Carson makes some spook stuff from stellite and ti.. Nice stuff . expensive..
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 10-12-98).]
[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 10-12-98).]
Darrel..."nasty stuff" eh? I sure hope so...ought to be darned near indestructible. You mention Kit making some spook stuff out of similar material...not surprised. Kit Carson has said he loves his stellite 6K knife too. I'm real anxious!!!
DC...haven't a clue as to appearance. Ordered a bar shipped directly to Trace and believe Rob has his inhand or due in shortly. Not sure what happened to Doc...from what Darrel sez nothing materialized. Mmmm.
-=[Bob]=-
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 08 May 1999).]
DC...haven't a clue as to appearance. Ordered a bar shipped directly to Trace and believe Rob has his inhand or due in shortly. Not sure what happened to Doc...from what Darrel sez nothing materialized. Mmmm.
-=[Bob]=-
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 08 May 1999).]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,838
I just got the sample blanks of Talonite (r) today; Tom Walz has been very busy. I am sending them off to Darrel Ralph and Harald Moeller tomorrow. Darrel has expressed a desire to make a folder with Ti scales. Right up my alley!!
The blank is in the mail, Darrel; can you make two folders out of a 3/16" x 1 and 1/2" x 10" blank? I think you can.
I tried to shave a wire off an edge of the Talonite(r) blank; after all, M2 is tough, and Talonite (r) only has a Rc of 46-48. Result? Three nicks in my AFCK M2. This stuff could be nice. Very nice.
Will keep you enthusiasts posted (assuming I don't get kicked off this forum as well).
Walt
The blank is in the mail, Darrel; can you make two folders out of a 3/16" x 1 and 1/2" x 10" blank? I think you can.
I tried to shave a wire off an edge of the Talonite(r) blank; after all, M2 is tough, and Talonite (r) only has a Rc of 46-48. Result? Three nicks in my AFCK M2. This stuff could be nice. Very nice.
Will keep you enthusiasts posted (assuming I don't get kicked off this forum as well).
Walt
