What happened if your package is seized by Customs...

Well, if a person is going to sell and ship anywhere on the planet, you as a seller share the resposibility of whe your package is going. It's not an unreasonable move. I want to ensure any package I ship makes it to the intended destination, I can't afford to loose the koney owed to me for a sale and the knife itself. If I can prevent that by doing a little homework, then I'll do that.

I didn't say they should be void of responsiblity, but that is what happens with PayPal. If these knives had been seized by customs and set for destruction, the buyer would have gotten his money back in the link of an eye. That is how paypal operates, I have a friend that sold some knives on eBay, the knives that went to Australia, were stopped, searched, siezed, cofiscated, and destroyed. He got the paperwork eventually and his name went on a list of "importers to watch". The buyer got his money back, and the seller had zero recourse. I got into trouble myself for sending a girlfriend some American tea once. I got a letter from customs stating the tea was seized and destroyed because it was illegal to import anything with any kind of citrus traces, and my name would be placed on a watch list.


Yes, the buyer should be aware of their own COO laws on knives and other items, but they don't think when they see something the like and say "I'll take it".

Hope that clears things up a bit.
 
RevDevil said:
Well, if a person is going to sell and ship anywhere on the planet, you as a seller share the resposibility of whe your package is going. It's not an unreasonable move. I want to ensure any package I ship makes it to the intended destination, I can't afford to loose the koney owed to me for a sale and the knife itself. If I can prevent that by doing a little homework, then I'll do that.

I didn't say they should be void of responsiblity, but that is what happens with PayPal. If these knives had been seized by customs and set for destruction, the buyer would have gotten his money back in the link of an eye. That is how paypal operates, I have a friend that sold some knives on eBay, the knives that went to Australia, were stopped, searched, siezed, cofiscated, and destroyed. He got the paperwork eventually and his name went on a list of "importers to watch". The buyer got his money back, and the seller had zero recourse. I got into trouble myself for sending a girlfriend some American tea once. I got a letter from customs stating the tea was seized and destroyed because it was illegal to import anything with any kind of citrus traces, and my name would be placed on a watch list.


Yes, the buyer should be aware of their own COO laws on knives and other items, but they don't think when they see something the like and say "I'll take it".

Hope that clears things up a bit.
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I get what you're saying & I agree with you for the most part.I just think the buyer should do a little homework of their own & not leave it entirely up to the seller is all.Most ads state "Know your local & state laws before buying!"
 
JTR357 said:
I get what you're saying & I agree with you for the most part.I just think the buyer should do a little homework of their own & not leave it entirely up to the seller is all.Most ads state "Know your local & state laws before buying!"
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Correctly said...
 
RevDevil said:
Well, if a person is going to sell and ship anywhere on the planet, you as a seller share the resposibility of whe your package is going. It's not an unreasonable move. I want to ensure any package I ship makes it to the intended destination, I can't afford to loose the koney owed to me for a sale and the knife itself. If I can prevent that by doing a little homework, then I'll do that.

I didn't say they should be void of responsiblity, but that is what happens with PayPal. If these knives had been seized by customs and set for destruction, the buyer would have gotten his money back in the link of an eye. That is how paypal operates, I have a friend that sold some knives on eBay, the knives that went to Australia, were stopped, searched, siezed, cofiscated, and destroyed. He got the paperwork eventually and his name went on a list of "importers to watch". The buyer got his money back, and the seller had zero recourse. I got into trouble myself for sending a girlfriend some American tea once. I got a letter from customs stating the tea was seized and destroyed because it was illegal to import anything with any kind of citrus traces, and my name would be placed on a watch list.


Yes, the buyer should be aware of their own COO laws on knives and other items, but they don't think when they see something the like and say "I'll take it".

Hope that clears things up a bit.
Click to expand...


I think the above post is much more responsible post by including the PayPal verbiage.
When you, an exchange mod, makes more of a blanket statements like:

RevDevil said:
It's the sellers responsibility to ensure the package gets to the buyer. That means doing a little homework to figure out the legality of such an item. Most often times a buyer has no idea of what their own laws are, out of ignorance or laziness, but rest assured if customs confiscates and item and destroys it, you the seller will be on the hook. It doesn't matter if you state "I am not responsible for the item once I ship it", that is BS.

If you sent a folder to Australia, you're going to have to eat the cost of the knife and refunding the buyer their money. It's been discussed quite a bit. One handed opening knives are more than likely not going to get accepted into the country. Tis is not new and certainly not a secret. If the item has been banned, it's likely to get destroyed....
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Speaking for myself, I wonder if you are relaying your understanding of the rules here on Bladeforums, because I don't see how you could have these opinions based on the actual published rules.

If I sell a knife in the exchange it will be listed as USA only, PayPal preferred, 3 day no questions asked inspection period for the buyer.
But let's say someone from Australia were to ask if I would consider selling to him and I say yes, under these terms:
1. USPS money order or cash only for payment
2. I will provide proof of shipment with tracking and insurance
3. My obligation will end once proof of shipment is provided, no inspection period granted, knife sold "as-is"
4. If the knife never arrives, and i am able to collect the insurance you will get a refund. If not, not.
5. If the knife, having not been delivered, ultimately gets returned to me in same condition as it was sent, I will either refund the purchase price less total shipping costs, or allow you to pay the additional postage to try again.

Would that sale, assuming both parties agreed to the terms listed, be somehow against Bladeforums rules in your opinion?
 
John, I do not disagree that buyers need to do some work as well, but often times neither party does. That is when things get bad enough to start a thread and when negative comments start. If I sell something, I will try and figure out what the potential loss and liabity I have and I am responsible for. I've shipped items to Italy, South Africa, Australia, new Zealand, China, Taiwan, Japan, Portugal, Israel, Canada, etc. and haven't had problems with customs, *knock on wood.

Stu, in a case such as your example the mods would not have much to do with. The examples I referenced are simply based on my experience and that of a friend, while using Paypal. You cannot reason with a Paypal agent on the phone, and even less over the phone. They base decisions on their rules, not our rules or terms and those deccisions are final. So much so, they have implemented that users in the US must follow California state laws in order to use it (automatics and balisongs being prohibited). They do not care who I am or what BF is.
 
OK, fair enough.

I completely agree about PayPal, their rules, and the boat one will find oneself in if one accepts a PayPal payment and fails to deliver the purchased item, regardless of circumstances or agreements between the parties.

The reason I have posted the questions I have is there was there is no mention of PayPal in the OP, or in your first post in the thread. I thought you were informing estate4life that as far as Bladeforums was concerned he would have to refund his buyer even if he didn't get his knife back. I was just a little miffed how you would take that position without all the facts.

Unless I missed it, we still don't know if PayPal was even used in this transaction. Lot's of discussion about PayPal, but none of it from estate4life.
 
The OP and I have exchanged messages from time to time and on his sales threads, Paypal is the preferred payment method. It was based on that previous experience I based my statements on. As well as the eBay thing, they discourage any other payment form for which they cannot control. Te other issue with my friend was also via eBay and his experiences happened over the last 3 years, the laws may have softened in AUS, but I can't say I am up to speed on them as I do not sell much anymore, or ship there since the confiscation issues arose a couple years ago. In summary, it is always better to err on the side of caution when conducting online transactions. The only rule is CYA, CYA, CYA.
 
I use 100% paypal goods.....sometime even if I ask for goods, buyer sends me GIFT (maybe because using Smartphone app) but that's ok because I am a trusted seller. I posted a for sale on the exchange, if a buyer contact me thru email say " I take it if you ship to Australia ".

If I say yes, buyers sends me paypal goods.....then 3 weeks later, the Aussie custom sends buyer a hard copy statement like this:


then buyer contact me saying custom seized our package, and will (maybe ) return to me. Then Buyer file a NON-RECEIPT dispute with paypal, and Paypal withhold my money (say $350 value of the knife)

I end up refunding money to buyer, might as well since paypal already held the fund, makes no difference. So seller eat it....no knife, no money.

FLymon said:
OK, fair enough.

I completely agree about PayPal, their rules, and the boat one will find oneself in if one accepts a PayPal payment and fails to deliver the purchased item, regardless of circumstances or agreements between the parties.

The reason I have posted the questions I have is there was there is no mention of PayPal in the OP, or in your first post in the thread. I thought you were informing estate4life that as far as Bladeforums was concerned he would have to refund his buyer even if he didn't get his knife back. I was just a little miffed how you would take that position without all the facts.

Unless I missed it, we still don't know if PayPal was even used in this transaction. Lot's of discussion about PayPal, but none of it from estate4life.
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You are right about that.
Once he filed with PayPal, and you couldn't provide proof of delivery, the battle was lost.

I hope you get your knife back.
 
I stupidly sent a Strider SNG to Australia back in January, I think. Buyer asked that I put "camping tool" on the customs form. Should have been a red flag, but sometimes I need to learn things the hard way. When buying it he said he'd assume responsibility if anything happened, so I sent it. And it got seized.
Buyer was eventually (over 6 months later) able to get them to return it to me. I was actually really surprised when it came in the mail.
 
I sell a lot of my WilkinsGRIP products to buyers in Australia and I wouldn't have a problem selling and shipping a fixed blade Down Under. However I would not consider shipping any folder to Australia. It is just not worth the risk and the hassle. If anything happens – and bad thing do frequesntly happen – the time dealing with it would eat up any profit and in the end I'd loose money even -if- I got the knife back. It's unfortunate.
 
I had one seized by Australia and one by Russia customs not long ago, it took a bit but both where sent back. I contacted USPS by the customer service and they did a shipping inquire. I think because I did that both where sent back with no problem! Might be worth you doing the same.
 
As an Aussie I hate hearing about these seizures, luckily I have bought several paramilitary2s from the exchange here and all except 2 have passed customs inspections
Before I bought any I emailed aussie customs weapons branch and they sent a return email saying they aren't controlled and are fine to import so off I went and luckily managed to score a complete set of sprint runs and all the standard production models 99% of these were opened, checked and passed without issues.
Recently 2 were stopped and now in the process of possibly being sent back, ive kept records of all the ones inspected and passed so hopefully they realise they have made a wrong decision but the way i see it that's my problem and Definatly not the sellers,

What annoys me is someone buying folders and then if there seized opening a claim and putting the problem with the seller and claiming the money back through PayPal
I know the seller has responsibility to the parcel arriving but once it's in the post with tracking and stopped by customs in a different country then that's the buyers problem, a few that have sent me knives and helped me out with shipping I now consider good friends and there's no way I could file a PayPal claim against them when they have gone out of there way to help me,

Cheers rusty
 
The BUYER here should retract the claim, didn't we have one on here similar with another Australian who knew the rules but still bought from a member and did the PP claim because customs stopped the knives.

He dissappeared off the forums after that (here & Aust BF).

For what its worth and like a broken record,

UNLESS you can guarantee that each and every knife will have the same tolerances to resist the customs test you are rolling the dice with folders importation, i have a friend who one week had approval for Ontario RAT 1's folders, the following week they confiscated the next few as they failed the test after being inspected.

BUYER should accept his loss !.
 
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Roll of dice is exactly....even the Aussie custom stated the para 2 is not control, but will inspect upon importation. Each inspection may have their own opinion. My suggestion is declare accurately....instead of a pocket knife, declare as Cutlery Tool. Some say camping tool will work also.


TiNi said:
The BUYER here should retract the claim, didn't we have one on here similar with another Australian who knew the rules but still bought from a member and did the PP claim because customs stopped the knives.

He dissappeared off the forums after that (here & Aust BF).

For what its worth and like a broken record,

UNLESS you can guarantee that each and every knife will have the same tolerances to resist the customs test you are rolling the dice with folders importation, i have a friend who one week had approval for Ontario RAT 1's folders, the following week they confiscated the next few as they failed the test after being inspected.

BUYER should accept his loss !.
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Rusty351 said:
As an Aussie I hate hearing about these seizures, luckily I have bought several paramilitary2s from the exchange here and all except 2 have passed customs inspections
Before I bought any I emailed aussie customs weapons branch and they sent a return email saying they aren't controlled and are fine to import so off I went and luckily managed to score a complete set of sprint runs and all the standard production models 99% of these were opened, checked and passed without issues.
Recently 2 were stopped and now in the process of possibly being sent back, ive kept records of all the ones inspected and passed so hopefully they realise they have made a wrong decision but the way i see it that's my problem and Definatly not the sellers,

What annoys me is someone buying folders and then if there seized opening a claim and putting the problem with the seller and claiming the money back through PayPal
I know the seller has responsibility to the parcel arriving but once it's in the post with tracking and stopped by customs in a different country then that's the buyers problem, a few that have sent me knives and helped me out with shipping I now consider good friends and there's no way I could file a PayPal claim against them when they have gone out of there way to help me,

Cheers rusty
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I agree rusty and the only way i shipped those to you was because you gave me your word that you were responsible and were a man of your word, and i would not hesitate to do it again, you went above and beyond as far as shipping and compensating me for my time and trouble... and consider you and Pierre a friend.

Scott
 
I think that I will reference this thread every time someone complains that us Americans won't ship knives Australia, Canada, UK, Lower Slobovia, etc.

I tend to disagree with the position that the seller is ALWAYS responsible for delivery. A buyer agreeing to terms of purchase has made a contract. I'm
not a lawyer, but a gentlemen's agreement should be binding.
 
A lot of Aussies do what I do, set up a mailbox in the US. Then as long as the seller gets the knife there deal is done. Then it's on me to declare correctly, check it's ok, send it over when I have it all sorted. Bonus is combining items to save $$$ on postage. If anything happens when it arrives here, it will get shipped back to my mailbox and I can deal with it from there.
 
UffDa said:
I think that I will reference this thread every time someone complains that us Americans won't ship knives Australia, Canada, UK, Lower Slobovia, etc.

I tend to disagree with the position that the seller is ALWAYS responsible for delivery. A buyer agreeing to terms of purchase has made a contract. I'm
not a lawyer, but a gentlemen's agreement should be binding.
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What he said! :thumbup: :thumbup:
 
I just successfully shipped a FIXED blade to Australia, which is NOT illegal, and it got there just fine...in five days and in time so the buyer could take it on his hunting trip.
I have shipped to Bavaria also, but it took about five weeks before the buyer received his Strider SMF. But he did get it.
It's scary.
BTW... I just saw that Rusty351 had posted earlier. He's my recent Aussie buyer and he's a nice guy, and has good feedback with four or five forum guys here that I know. He and I also had a "gentleman's agreement" in terms of liability. With his prior feedback, I have no reason NOT to trust his word. I like him...
Sonnydaze
 
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