What is a Kaiken or Kwaiken

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I posted my 2 articles I'm citing to over rule the Japanese Sword Society . they made me mad when they said they were chinese . I'm going to state my evidence and I'll be the first to admit it is scarce , Silly me I think I can make a strong case that they are in fact Japanese and I hope for more expert scrutiny, If my theory can't pass expert muster, lets kick it to the ashbin where it belongs , and I'll cheerfully go back buying them for 20 $ on ebay. Please do me the courtesy of reading the articles and looking at the pictures with an open mind . Checkout lockjawknives.com and read his defination of a Kaiken . he still sells new ones in the $200 dollar range . I say his Kaikens and mine are something more like a lady might carry as opposed to a foot long Kaiken . More of a fashion accessory like Gucci Than something Tomoe Gozen might carry . So i've got no choice but to dispute the traditional defination of a Kaiken . Be sure to tell him about my free add . So can we agree and the following

Samuri women were expected to carry a Kaiken and it served 2 purposes , self-defense and Suicide or maybe a little 2 knife set , perhaps ?
Yes i do agree that the japanese women were training with sharpened bamboo spears to confront the US Marines , the peasant women that is , not the Samauri ones they may have had something better.
There was a large force of craftsmen in Seki churning out millions of edged weapons in the 30's and early war years . Forgers , polishers , fittings manufacturers and at all levels of skill form apprentice to master
Yes a critical shortage of rolling mill steel and oil . My theory is that all this production was what these guys refer to puddled steel , worn out railroad rails, hardest possible , or maybe , blasphemy traditional forged made for some of those rich ladies , cause that is what we are talking about.
At the end of the war Japan's population was appx 70 mil and traditionally only about were 5% were Samuari and half were women so should be at least 1.75 million ladies pocket knives floating around out there . Where are they ?
US Marines got to pick out of the 3 million surrendered and had 2 of then tell me that's where they got them . Like I said they were Marines so i did't believe them either for a long time , this conversation was at least 30 years ago. Then again since were Marines i had to take into consideration what else I knew about them , they will steal anything and because they have a lot of gong ho farm guys who volunteered to storm entrenched beaches in the big 2 were pack rats by nature . I like napoleon understood someone has to hand out blankets and fire artillery from well behind those front lines. I had 2 of them tell me that is where they got the knives I haven't yet posted . I asked both the same question , So you were there when they handed out those swords , why didn't you grab one of those . he said kid , i was 45, he said kid what would i want a sword for when i had my 45 , i didn't want to lug it around , figured one of my buddies would steal it , Those little things were so cute i thought my wife might like it. The article says they went door to door and all weapons including civilian ones.
japan was fuedal till 1854 and only 4 generations till the 30's . average annual wage was 1350$, average US women was 5'2"and weighted 125 . so these Japanese ladies were maybe 5' and 110 .
This seizure and destruction of all these weapons is a great tragedy for which we will forever have to answer . I understand the sneak attack on Pearl , but when we won we made a conscious attempt to destroy there culture which predates ours by a thousand years or so . I think we were so succesful that these could be a forgotten piece of history . Can't imagine how horrified i am to read that sentence aloud and realize i am about to publish it. I'm putting myself out there , cause i belive it . These could all easily be post war , that's what i started collecting , the knives of occupied Japan , that's precisely how low rent i am . But we'll talk about that later .
I had to put something out there before i posted my next set of pictures of my post war stainless steel Chinese knife . You'll see why when i publish my unknown double edge daggers.

Since i always criticize myself first , here goes ; Stop Bill please your killing me here , now your telling me you buy this stuff off ebay for 25 $ cause no one else knows what it is , in the world. and since there's no place in in any present kaiken theory they have to be some kind of low class junk , i mean i really even need to see them to make a decision . I think i remember you , you used to one of those after lunch lounge comedians , from down on the strip.
The only favor i ask of any of you is don't tell anyone aboutr my theory , they'll never believe it anyway and i won't be able to buy them for 25$ anymore
 
Stop Bill please you're killing me here.
1. It is SAMURAI not Samuri.
2. Samurai class women carried one kaiken. The wearing of two blades was limited to Samurai Class men (not boys).
3.There were no "Samurai women" after 1868-1870 when the Samurai Class was officially abolished. There were no "Samurai" when WWII endedin 1945.
4.There was a large force of craftsmen churning out bladed weapons in Seki (and several other blade centers) since the 13th century. Not the1930s.
5. The USMC fought the island battles and some battlefied souvenirs were taken home, mostly Nambu pistols and Guntos. But the bulk of bladed weapons were
taken by US 8th Army under General Douglas MacArthur/GHQ. All firearms and bladed weapons were confiscated and to be destroyed. Some escaped destruction and found their way back to the US. There were also a large number of blades of questionable quality sold to unsuspecting GIs with some fake Kanji name scratched into the tang.
4. Whether the US was guilty of "destroying Japanese culture" is very debatable. But what is widely recognized is that even is so, it was far far less than what would have happened if
the Russians (USSR) had taken control. North Korea is good example of the latter. But personally, although Japanese culture changed greatly in 1896 and again in 1945 I believe that despite these changes, the original underlying culture remains.

Now...
-The knives in your photos are not from "Occupied Japan" 1945-1952. Production of knces was prohibited immedtately post WWII, the same as in Germany. As rules relaxed some were made but stanped "Made in Occupied Japan". After 1952 that changed to "Made in Japan". This is why you will rarely if ever see a knife made in Japan for export without the COO. Knives made for he domestic market will usually not have a COO.
- The knives in your photos are most likely "cheap Chinese junk". I'm sorry if that angers you. But it is what it is. They do not appear Japanese made to me, and obviously to the JSSUS either.

You can not change facts by expanding theoretical background stories. Especially if they are historically inaccurate.
May I suggest that if you are indeed interested in Pre-War Japanese culture you actually study it, rather trhan speculating to suit your agenda.
I would also suggest that you cease purchasing these types of knives off e-bay or wherever as they are not worth $20 each or whatever price you are paying.
If you want to buy knives to collect, or re-sell, there are plenty of authentic or replica knives that need no "story" to sell.

Finally, perhaps you can post a link to Tony Bone's definition of a Kaiken. I don't see it anywhere. Thanks.
And also exactly how does any definition held by a New Orleas knifemaker have anything to do with defining a traditional Japanese knife that is centuries old.
 
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More evidence and less hypothesis and speculation is in order to make a case for petty much anything. I think Ken has it correctly.
 
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Wow after seeing those I'm entirely convinced that Ken is correct. I would be stunned if those are anything but (at best) cheap tourist trinkets probably made in China or Pakistan or similar. Buy what you like of course, but I can guarantee you that those things have no historical value and don't even really have intrinsic value because they are low quality knives. Sorry, but it is what it is.
 
Bill,
Thank you for posting your additional photos. I found them very interesting. Regretfully my opinion remains as before.
As a side note, those "western styled" double edged daggers with etching (including a dragon) blow my mind.
As do the visible build quality. China, India, or Pakistan come to mind as possible manufacturing sources.
Good luck.
 
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You will not get any support here! These are not Kaiken, nor Japanese. They are junk regardless of where they were made.
Been a while since I have seen so much BS in one post and I will not bother to address it.
You should study more and post less, way less!
 
It is just a crazy theory i know i'm ten dollar basic member came here day before yesterday with this idiotic , imbecilic or moronic theory . challenged every expert to a fight day one on of all things on samuri , sorry i could't resist , ladies history and the knives of occupied japan , ever even hear of the topic ? it is not hard can't be japanese cause only a few cheap knives exist from that time period . So since they don't exist they can't be real , but they do seem to be real so that can't be japanese . i bought that cheap fake yesterday on ebay for 66$ only because they were marked Kozan and the little one stainless throw something it is neither of . so there were no knives made in seki between 1946 and 1980 when al mar hired george sakai to built the origional SERE . i find it ironic that was the first production knife to sell in the US for over a 100$ and was japanese . wish i'd bought a couple . i knew i was picking fight only thing scared me was it would be with myself . Never had so much fun , tune me out whenever i get boring . i'm actually quite flattered and encouraged to get such a warm reception but stop going so easy me , just spit it out i feel i have certainly proved that my ego is totally over the top and out of control is begging for and could only benefit from a very long and serious beatdown . please help i want as long a line as possible . i paid my 10 bucks and i plan to get my moneys worth
 
It is just a crazy theory i know i'm ten dollar basic member came here day before yesterday with this idiotic , imbecilic or moronic theory . challenged every expert to a fight day one on of all things on samuri , sorry i could't resist , ladies history and the knives of occupied japan , ever even hear of the topic ? it is not hard can't be japanese cause only a few cheap knives exist from that time period . So since they don't exist they can't be real , but they do seem to be real so that can't be japanese . i bought that cheap fake yesterday on ebay for 66$ only because they were marked Kozan and the little one stainless throw something it is neither of . so there were no knives made in seki between 1946 and 1980 when al mar hired george sakai to built the origional SERE . i find it ironic that was the first production knife to sell in the US for over a 100$ and was japanese . wish i'd bought a couple . i knew i was picking fight only thing scared me was it would be with myself . Never had so much fun , tune me out whenever i get boring . i'm actually quite flattered and encouraged to get such a warm reception but stop going so easy me , just spit it out i feel i have certainly proved that my ego is totally over the top and out of control is begging for and could only benefit from a very long and serious beatdown . please help i want as long a line as possible . i paid my 10 bucks and i plan to get my moneys worth
Um okay. Look guy if you came looking to post wacky theories in the hopes of picking a fight there's a sub forum called "whine and cheese" where you will fit right in. In general this sub forum is a place where people can learn a bit about swords. At least three or four of us have told you what you have. You can believe us or not its entirely up to you, but remember you came and asked us.

If you can substantiate your ideas with some actual evidence than by all means do so. Wishful theories aren't evidence. "What if" scenarios are not evidence. " It could have been should have been" hypotheses are not evidence.
 
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