What is Talonite?

F

FullerH

Joined
Nov 25, 1998
Messages
12,632
I have noticed Rob Simonich's add at the top of the page which shows a Talonite knife and I remember discussion of Talonite Carnivore's. There was some discussion of Talonite there, but just what, exactly, is Talonite? Is it a steel alloy of sorts or is it some new "wonder metal"?

Sorry if someone has already answered this, but, with the Search Mode out, I can't find it.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh


 
Talonite (r) is not a steel. It is a Co alloy with only 3% Fe in it.

Advantages: corrosion resistance, long wear, exclusivity.

Disadvantages: cost ($150/lb), low Rc (but this is misleading, as the alloy is hard facing: alloy is same hardness all the way through), ? toughness (but none of knives made with it so far have demonstrated problems with this).

Tom Walz is president of Carbide Processors, who manufacture Talonite (r). Lots of good info at their site: http://www.carbideprocessors.com/

Rob Simonich sells sheet stock, knife kits, and completed knives: http://www.simonichknives.com/

Kit Carson also sells completed knives: http://www.kvnet.org/knives/

Hope this helps. Walt
 
Kelly & Walt, thanks guys. Now I am starting to wonder if I want one. Uh, does anyone out there in radio land own one or otherwise have experience with a Talonite blade?

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh


 
My recent experience with a cast Stellite blade have made a convert out of me for small utility blades. I have a couple of David Boye's lockback folders with Boye Dendritic Cobalt (BDC) blades, which are Stellite that has been cast into blade shape before grinding.

The Cobalt blades take a very aggressive micro-serrated edge very easily, and hold it an amazingly long time.

You don't want to torque it much in small cross-sections or try to cut something hard, but as a cutting edge, it is damn fine.

Harv
 
Noting Steve's comments, I must say that I haven't found it to be true with Talonite (r). The "flavor" of Stellite most often used in knives and Talonite are chemically the same but Talonite is processed differently. That difference is readily apparent to the knifemaker and although solid test data comparing the two is meager, Talonite appears to perform even better than Stellite without any edge rolling, edge chipping, or other detrimental characteristics. I love my Talonite knives and am adding more to my battery.

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-=[Bob]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!


 
I also have a Talonite knife (from Rob Simonich) and in the month & 1/2 or so I've had it have it have yet to find a weakness with the material. All the info you'll come across about edge retention being superlative are spot on; I've only touched mine up once, but it really didn't NEED to be, was still cutting like a champ. Of course, I have not done any smashing and crashing with my knife as it is a Cetan model, small utility/hunter sort not given to chopping firewood or dispatching alien creatures etc. But his stuff really does stand out when compared with every other kind of knife material. Of course, you'll never get a Mad Dog knife done in Talonite, but that's probably ok for most of us.
wink.gif
 
Brian :

Of course, you'll never get a Mad Dog knife done in Talonite
Click to expand...

Rob will make larger Talonite knives. I have discussed it with him before and the performance seems to be there for Talonite to handle heavier tasks.

-Cliff
 
The first chef's knife in Talonite (r) was sent to Nick Blinoff about three weeks ago. He and Michael Gettier are the two chefs who are consulting with Rob about desireable features, size, and configuration of this knife, based on actual use in busy restaurants. In short, these two professional chefs are giving direct input as to what constitutes the best chef's knife in the world. Here is what Nick had to say:

(quote)

Walter, Rob-

I've been using this gorgeous piece of art for two weeks now. I have used this knife for everything that I would normally use my large chef's knife for, as a matter of fact I put my old knife into retirement and have used Rob's knife exclusively.

I have used this knife for a variety of cutting chores, including:
Fish... maybe a dozen or so whole salmon, swordfish, halibut, ahi tuna, opah, whitefish, sea bass, mahi, etc.
Vegetables ad naseum
Frenching lamb racks and veal chops
Portioning Beef filets, pork loins
Disjointing chicken and ducks
Detail work (chiffonade of fine herbs, julienne cuts, zesting citrus fruits
I have used this knife with no holds barred, and I'll tell you, each time that I pick it up I still get a charge out of it. The knife has a rock solid feel to it that is incomparable to any knife I've ever used. It has a comfortable heft to it and the balance is great.

Rob hit a home run with the shape of the blade. It has a belly on it that attacks the work area, and the height of the blade makes it easy to guide with the knuckles for repetitive chopping jobs.

As far as blade width goes, I'm going to have to back down on my previous position and agree with Rob that 1/8" is the way to go. I'm glad that Rob put a 1/8" blade on this knife, I'm sure that 3/16" would just be too heavy.

How's the Talonite (r) going, you ask? Well, like I said, I've used this knife heavily for the past two weeks, and while it doesn't still have that scary sharp edge that it came with out of the box, it is still plenty sharp, shaving paper or zesting citrus easily. I hadn't asked what the proper technique is to care for the Talonite (r) blade, so it has only received the occasional gentle passes on my ceramic steel. I didn't expect that the scary sharp original edge would last too long, and it didn't... it was just too sharp. I don't think that two weeks are enough to fully evaluate the performance of the Talonite (r), I'll have to wait and fall into a pattern to see how often I'm going to need to touch the knife up on my Edge-Pro. Initially, however, I am impressed with the edge that I still have after two weeks of intense usage.

Okay, now we get into the area where I feel there are a few minor modifications to make. The handle has been designed to be comfortable in the hand when all four fingers are wrapped around the G10 scales. The knife is very comfortable in this position. The problem is, I've never known a chef to use this position while working with a large knife. Most chefs will wrap the smaller three fingers around the handle, and then place the index finger and thumb on either side of the blade. This position achieves a greater ability to control the knife.

There is a notch cut into the handle of the knife that is meant for the index finger to rest in. This notch needs to be slightly rounded off. When I am in the "choked up" grip as described above, this notch presses in the flesh of my middle finger, and during repetitive cutting chores it proves to be too pointy. I think that there should be some profile in the handle, as it is a good tactile reminder as to where your grip should be, just a little less pointy.

The other modification I would suggest would be to taper off the G10 scales as they approach the blade. I don't know if this would weaken the handle substantially, but it would improve comfort greatly when in the "choked up" grip.

Walter, my restaurant is in Westlake Village, probably about fifty miles south of Santa Barbara. I dearly hope that you will be able to incorporate a visit into your trip.

(end quote)

I am definitely going down to Nick's Restaurant, Mandevilla. He sent me a menu, and the food sounds wonderful. Michael Gettier has the knife now, and is evaluating it. Rob is in the process of making a smaller knife; the original prototype was 17" long with a 10" blade.

So, it looks like Talonite (r) has found another niche in the world. Good stuff.


Walt
 

Very minor point. We do not actually mfg. Talonite. We have it manufactured for us to our design and specifications. It is an extremely difficult thing to make well, sort of like an excellent knife. A good knife mfg. will definitely work within 0.001" but not everyone can or cares to do that. Talonite is formulated with purity levels measured in parts per million. At this level it is important which mine the metals came from and how they were refined.

Talonite(r) is probably a fifth generation Haynes alloy named after the inventor who invented the class of alloys now sold as Talonite(r), Stellite(r), etc. What has happened over the generations is that the Co/Cr alloys have been refined for special applications. Talonite was developed specifically for knives as the ideal knife alloy. Haynes alloys are all similar as all automobiles are similar. Haynes alloys are all different as a jaguar is different from a Humvee.

We were selling Talonite for industrial purposes. A customer suggested we try it for hand held knives. I posted asking if anybody could tell the difference in hand held knives as we could in industrial knives. My point was that industrial knives make thousands and thousands of identical cuts while hand held knives make them one at a time. The answers I received were very interesting.

We were very fortunate to have Walter Welch and Rob Simonich try it orginally. They are both sophisticated enough to appreciate the difference in alloys as the alloy alone. Rob has a beautiful clear, style that fouces heavily on the performance of the alloy in a working knife. It reminds me most of Picasso's very simple line drawings such as those of a bull or a dove or the curve of a lower back. Walt has an incredible eye and feel for knives. I can appreciate them but not as well as he can. (He also seems to be smarter and to have more fun than I do.)

Tom

 
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