What Knife for our troops?

LizardKing

LizardKing

Joined
May 7, 2001
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After Reading this thread concerning the Israeli issue knife, i started thinking about what knife i would idealy issue to our troops (our being USA, and assumeing that they already have a Leatherman or SAK). Keep in mind that this is not a what would you carry thread, since you can carry a thousand dollar custom if you wanted to, but what if you were the US Gov and were going to pay for these knives.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203531http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203531

To my understanding the "knife" that is issued is the ontario M9 Bayonet, this knife looks to be gimmicky and expensive at best, and i doubt their 420 steel is as good as the stuff camillus uses, when talking to a marine friend of mine it seems that the only guys that are actually issued knives are Machine gunners, since (i suppose) it is not possible to mount a bayonet on a machine gun (A guess on my part).

These are the conclusions that the previous thread came to:

Must be Multi-use fixed blade, capable of general camp chores and use as a weapon if needed.

Must be resistant to weather,so blade and handle must be water resistant.

Easy to carry so probably should be in the USMC fighter 7 in. blade length.

Easy to maintain.

Low cost, so it would actually be feasable to issue.

My conclusion is i cannot think of an ideal choice, the BK&T C/U-7 looks good, but it is still carbon steel and should not be stored in its sheath, and the edge can rust away. The Buck Strider solution looks nice but is probably a bit shorter than what we want. The Al Mar SERE Operator looks a tad to weapon oriented, but it could be a canidate. Ka Bars are carbon steel like the CU-7, and the Stainless versions are 440A, which is not ideal. The SOG knives are 440A as well, so they wouldnt rust, and they are supposed to have a Good 440A heat treat.

Busse's, Strider's, Hossom's, Simonich's,and Randalls are too expenisive to convince anyone to issue them, so what does that leave us?
 
Originally posted by LizardKing
Busse's, Strider's, Hossom's, Simonich's,and Randalls are too expenisive to convince anyone to issue them, so what does that leave us?
Click to expand...

[n/m I are an idiot, mis-read what was said.]


I think a knife for a soldier shouldnt be a Fighting Knife... it should be a combat knife. I define a fighting knife as a single purpose weapon, to hurt people, to slice open humans, to kill them.
A combat knife is more than a weapon... its a tool, its going to cut foliage/brush, its going to cut rope, synthetic cord, and cloth, it might even be used to kill a snake. Its going to see uses just like a camp knife... and harder, like breaking apart wooden pallets.
However, if it does need to be used in a fight, it should be able to do that too... if a soldier needs it to save his life, it should work for that as well... but its not a pure fighting knife.

I like a clip point, or a spear/drop point... 3/16" to 1/4" stainless steel (154-CM would be preffered for me), 7 inch blade, 4 1/2" or 5" grip (I'd go with 5" to fit a variety of hands), with dual integral guards, one angled a little forward, to not dig into the hand in reverse grip, with a ricasso, rounded so the index finger can be curled around the lower guard, to choke up for finer tasks.
Bead blast finish, with a kydex sheath (or kydex lined nylon if nothing else).

I do doubt any custom will get issued, might be selected by a single team, or a couple teams, but not a general issue thing.
Even Striders or Busse's would fall into that.
If nothing else, something like the Becker Combat/Utility, or similar.

I think an issue 'hawk is a damn good idea too.

[Edited for irrelevance, mis-read the original posting]
 
My pick would easily be the TOPS Firestrike 45. It has a 3/16 thick blade that is 8 inches long. Big enough to do some good chopping but small enough for general camp use and as a fighter. It has nice micarta handles, solid kydex sheath, and isn't real expensive - also, I'm sure cost could be reduced once the government started ordering thousands of them.

For the purely cost conscious, my next pick would be the Becker Combat Utility 7 - BUT, for a standard issue it would need to have the handles slightly improved and a better sheath.

just my .02 cents!
Eek
 
I'd opt for the 21st Century KA-BAR fighting knife:)

AND the ATC VN Tactical Tomahawk:)

As issue items. Both were developed / designed by combat infantrymen, both have been to war and not been found wanting, both are Made in the USA (really, not just marked as such), and both offer wide array of options where an edged weapon/tool are needed.

Oops! I already have both!:D

Call me biased...:eek:
 
I am not in the military, so I cannot comment definitively. However, based on my own experiences with the SERE 2000 (which I would assume would be at least as rugged as the Operator) This would make an excelent combat knife. The 2000 is hefty and very sturdy. The blade profile is useful for a lot of things besides just being a weapon. Usually the biggest problem with using a knife for chores is that it is too delicate if it is also a good weapon. IMO, not so with the SERE. It is tought as nails and a fixed blade version can only be tougher, right? Add that to the fact that the knife can be had for a little over $100 and you got a winner IMO.
 
SERE 2000 is way nice and I agree with you.

Just saw the Operator advertised by Cutlery Shoppe. Have to check it out.

S912
 
Way nice indeed. I just sent it off to Gary Graley for a custom canted leather sheath for it. I have something very cool planned for the sheath but it is unclear at this time whether it can be done or not. I will let you all know if it comes to fruition and I'll post some pics.
 
A Fairsword or Smatchet designed by the late W.E. Fairbairn. These knives were issued by the British. They came out in an attempt to replace the Kabar the Knife/knives are designed for utility and fighting. Good design
 
I actually believe that the only way to a great knife for the military, would be to have one commissioned since then you would have a gaurenteed large number of orders and expensive molds could be commissioned, such as ones allowing the blade to be injection molded using powdered metals.

I am a non military guy but as a tax payer and a knife lover, i want to give our guys something that will get the job done, and make them feel like their country cares enough about them to give them a good knife.

So far the BK&T CU-7, The AM SERE Operator (waiting to see how it performs as a camp knife), and the Ka-Bat class of knives seem like they would be the best bet.
 
If we're talking about a GOOD, but inexpensive knife for our troops, how about the Buck Nighthawk?
 
The Ontario "Quartermaster" 6" long blade, carbon steel, 3/16" thick, capable of taking a top edge, wider than normal blade, might be a candidate worth considering. Especially if economics becomes a major factor.
 
This one is easy: The Fällkniven A1 (VG-10 steel 59HRC) with black coat on the blade. In a eagle-sheath(Would fit most webbing-gear)........wait a minute I am not American, oh well thats just what I think your army should be issued:D.
 
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