What makes a "forged" blade?

Rick Marchand said:
To be fair, Larrin … he wasn’t asserting that knives are cast. He said it like this… cast < machined < forged. His argument was that the fact that industry sometimes uses forged parts over machined… that it holds true, across all steel parts, including knives. I felt your article was an appropriate read.
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I will read more carefully and charitably next time. :)
 
I am a computer programmer by trade and this sounds exactly like a "what's a real programmer" debate. 😂 "People that use high-level languages or 3rd party libraries aren't real programmers"

So does a knife have to be pounded by a hammer to be considered forged? Or do power hammers and power presses count? Isn't the allure of a forged knife the idea that it is made by hand in a more historic way? So doesn't power hammers and presses sort of ruin the whole idea of a forged knife?

Do you have to use a coal forge? Or does propane count? Isn't propane cheating because the temperature is more consistent and controllable and doesn't take the kind of mastery and experience a coal forge does?

It's the same thing with grinding bevels. Why is a hand-ground bevel superior to a CNC or milling machine bevel? The milling machine will give you a perfect result so isn't that better? If a milling machine is cheating then isn't a $2k+ 2x72 variable speed grinder too? Is it only handmade if you use a file? Do you have to make the file yourself for the knife to be handmade?

This debate has nothing to do with knives. This is a whose the superior knife maker debate. This is about ego.
 
Salz150 said:
I am a computer programmer by trade and this sounds exactly like a "what's a real programmer" debate. 😂 "People that use high-level languages or 3rd party libraries aren't real programmers"

So does a knife have to be pounded by a hammer to be considered forged? Or do power hammers and power presses count? Isn't the allure of a forged knife the idea that it is made by hand in a more historic way? So doesn't power hammers and presses sort of ruin the whole idea of a forged knife?

Do you have to use a coal forge? Or does propane count? Isn't propane cheating because the temperature is more consistent and controllable and doesn't take the kind of mastery and experience a coal forge does?

It's the same thing with grinding bevels. Why is a hand-ground bevel superior to a CNC or milling machine bevel? The milling machine will give you a perfect result so isn't that better? If a milling machine is cheating then isn't a $2k+ 2x72 variable speed grinder too? Is it only handmade if you use a file? Do you have to make the file yourself for the knife to be handmade?

This debate has nothing to do with knives. This is a whose the superior knife maker debate. This is about ego.
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power hammers have been used for hundreds of years as technoligy has improved so has how they are powered some of the ealyest power hammers were powered by a water wheel and were little more than a log with a pieice of metal on the hammer end.
 
Evan,
I don't think Salz will read your response. His only post was the one he made two years ago that you are replying to.
 
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Evan,
I don't think Salz will read your response. His only post was the one he made two years ago that you are replying to.
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yeah Forgot to check when it was posted before my reply.
realized it was an old thread too late.
something for me to learn,check dates before posting.
 
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The problem with the term "forged Blade" is it is wasted on discussions based on personal opinions and hype.

The "Forged" blades that we need to be worried about are all the fake Chinese knives marked MORAN, FRAZIER, STRAUB, LOVELESS, and many FIF champs.
I see knives marked Frazier that I absolutely know are not his making. Besides obvious things like laser engraving and knives that are clearly brand new, the price is also a clue. Why would a seller offer a knife worth $1000 for $249. The sad thing is that many of these fake knives are sold by retail knife re-sellers who are big names. They don't even try to vet the source or examine the knife. They just put it up for sale and let the phrase, "caveat emptor" be their moto. I don't want to get into an argument with a seller, but there is one with a "stately name" that sells a lot of suspicious knives in my opinion.
 
I’d like to offer a perspective of someone that’s more outsider looking in. If you see my belt thread you would know I used to make some knives purely as a hobby. After losing my equipment I did try scratching the itch and bought a little atlas forge. I did a few Malaysian inspired Parangs that worked out pretty ok for a first timer. So basically I know enough to be dangerous as my father would have said
Getting to the topic it gave me a little perspective if I were to buy a blade from one of you guys. When I think of forged I think of hammer forged. By hand as a farrier or power industrial doesn’t doesn’t matter.
The way it’s ultimately finished I think is perfectly acceptable by grinder.
Now perception of a buyer. You guys are talking from a maker POV, but a buyer that’s not as savvy is probably looking at one thing. Does it have some hammered finish left to see? I think anyone of at least a mature age has seen a blacksmith work on TV in person or at least a picture. The visual icon of someone hammering on an anvil is what is associated as forged. That’s not very technical, but it’s what they see. You all sell to a more savvy buyer so don’t take the above as the gospel.
Now as a maker I think the old post above makes for a pretty an accurate generalization.
A. McPearson. “If you start with something that doesn't look like a knife, hit it with a hammer a bunch, and it looks like a knife after, then it's forged”

Anyway I figured I would add what I think is a consumer position on the subject. My motivation for posting is when I start making a few blades again this fall I might start to sell a few here and there. It’s my plan to start forging then finish grind and I want to be accurate in my description. The quote above is what was already in my mind.
Anyway that’s my 2 cents
 
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